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Thread: The Dealership told me this was normal... Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
02-08-2018 12:38 PM
Albert Daugherty
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post
Albert,
What is the engine idle speed?
If it responds to throttle as described, I'll ask if the idle speed screw on the RH side needs to be turned up to 1100 rpm cool - 1300 rpm fully warmed in-order to not die at a stop light.
It dies while moving. Never at a stop. That's the weird bit. But I believe it is running at 1100
Too low of idle speed setting will affect starting, cold & hot. But I'd still suggest choke cable adjustment and CCC test.

With the engine running at normal temp & idle speed of 1200 + or - 100 rpm, gently pull on the choke lever. If it moves more than 1/4 of full travel before affecting rpm & exhaust note I'll suggest that the cable has too much slack in it & it is possibly not getting full cold enrichment.
Could be...
Upon your 1st complaint, did they talk about zero throttle on cold startups, with full choke applied?
And then on hot startups, put starter in motion & then add just a touch of throttle? (I always explained this at point of sale.)
They did not, but I've owned a carbed bike in the past and don't generally blip the throttle when I start it.
Idle speed and choke cable adjustment should have been 2 of the first things discussed & attended to by a competent mechanic, after your 2nd complaint, IMHO. And carburetor cleaning if needed. (Which it may or may not have needed or received.)

If a 3rd complaint, CC Compression test, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
All of this on their nickel, this is just proper dealer set-up and possible diagnosis of a possible warranty issue, IMHO. (42 + years in the biz)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielsand View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but few brands that I purchased new before, came to the dealer in the crate. In this case, I don't know if KLR comes like that or not. If it does, some kid dropped the ball in PDI and the choke cable being out of adjustment, is the most likely culprit. Since bike had 6.9 miles on the clock, it's obvious that it had gas in the tank, the question is HOW LONG was it sitting at the dealer's fueled, and what kind of fuel was in the carb? Since they "cleaned" the carb (I seriously doubt that), gas should not be the issue. Choke cable/idle speed is more likely. If I would have a problem like that (and IF I fail to get help from KHI), I would take it to an Indy, serve the dealership with the bill, and resort to small claims court if they refuse to pay (or take too much time to pay up).
Yup, I'm going to end up pursuing a lawyer. I don't think they are even trying to repair it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluehighways View Post
I'd call Kawasaki’s USA Customer Service: 949-460-5688 Pacific Time, they're located in Orange County California.

They, I am certain, will be more than willing to "help" the dealer resolve this issue!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post
Daniel,
I've no idea about any other brands delivery of new motorcycles to their dealers, but not a single Kawasaki motorcycle ever delivered to the previously oldest Kawasaki dealership in the USA ever was delivered un-crated. And there was always some assembly required! More assembly than many realize on many models.

On the 1987-2016 KLR650's, the fuel tank was empty, but it was installed. Normally no need to remove a KLR650 fuel tank to perform final assembly, final preparation & test ride. And I always insisted on putting on at least the 1st 5 miles to check all transmission gears, bed in the brake pads & scrub in as much radius of the tires as possible.

The Gen 1 choke cable adjuster is/was near the lever, easily re-adjusted.
The Gen 2, they buried it along the frame spine, but in a 65-85f shop a KLR650 will normally start even if the cable is allowing only 1/2 choke.

The Gen 2 choke cable can be easily adjusted properly (if needed) during the 500 mile break-in maintenance. Which the fuel tank should be removed to properly perform.
But if the cable truly Needs adjustment before then, you are correct, it should be considered part of the PDI by the dealer & their customer.
I'll ask them to check the cable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by timberfoot View Post
I bought my KLR Brand new in July. I have never had any trouble starting it at all. Not even the very first time I started it at the dealership.
I did have a minor problem; a coolant lead caused by a loose coolant line clamp. I could have fixed it easily my self, but bugger that, the thing had only done one thousand Kilometers! That means any problem is the dealer's problem, or Kawasaki's problem. I took it back to the dealer and had them fix it.

I would have demanded they fix any problem in the first couple of thousand kilometers.

I advise you to fix nothing, adjust nothing and demand the dealer take care of their problem.

I wish you all the luck in the world

Regards

Timberfoot
No worries, I'm not giving up, I want a working motorcycle.
02-08-2018 12:33 PM
Albert Daugherty
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post
Albert, I've been reviewing your video some more.

You are letting off of the starter button about 2 rotations of the engine too soon in several of the attempts. It is a single cylinder engine, it does Not have an extra 3, 5 or 7 cylinders to carry the engine thru to the next firing of that 1st & only cylinder.

Time slots, :38-:52 / 1:12-1:25 / 2:30-2:50 . You should have left your thumb on the button just 2 more seconds.

1:12 - 1:25 is not me, it's the Mechanic's supervisor who advised me that he's owned a KLR for over six years. The motorcycle sounds like it is starting so you let off and it dies.

At 1:48 you appear to have used the cold start enrichner upon getting the bike un-stuck from the sand. I assume that the engine was fully up to temperature before riding into the sand. Wrong move.
You should have put the starter and therefore engine into motion and then gently rolled the throttle open. Keeping your thumb on the button until after the engine was in full running mode, or a thirty second count, whichever comes 1st.
The choke is OFF. I tried that, it did not work.

At 2:54-2:55 when you do finally get it started, it sounds like it is only going to idle at about 900-1100 rpm. That is usually Too SLOW.
It does appears to idle around 1100. But I'll pay better attention when I get the bike back

At 3:11-3:14, you are releasing the button too soon again. Quit playing tap,tap,tap. CRANK IT.

At 3:22-4:55 is where I really noticed that I wasn't hearing much 'Thump, Thump, Thump' from the non-running/non-firing exhaust pipe. But, Too Low of idle speed setting will reduce the amount of air being compressed, so one could have less 'thump,thump,thump'. Did you ever just gently roll the throttle open in this time frame?
I

At 5:02-5:04 I see your wrist flinch. Which allows more air in, which creates more compression, which allows the engine to start.
That is when the bike kept dying, I learned that from the last time it stalled out. And it seems to work

I truly think that an idle speed adjustment (1200 +/- 100) and these tips will probably eliminate your starting issues.
If not, show the dealership how much slack is in the choke cable with the procedure I earlier described. And if it is slack like I suspect, insist that they remove the tank to properly adjust it and Perform a Cold Cranking Compression test while the fuel tank is removed. 90+psi should be good.
Good suggestion, I will ask about that

My replies are in bold. It was easier to answer it in your quote. Thank you for the reply.
02-08-2018 02:56 AM
timberfoot I add my thanks to pdwestman also. I have only posted a few times and you have been there offering helpful advice at all times
02-07-2018 11:49 AM
pdwestman Thank you also, klr4evr. Glad that your project is going well.

And you are all welcome. And welcome to stop by our shop anytime any of you are in our area.
The coffee is always hot & free, the klr way.
02-07-2018 08:56 AM
Sherman and the choir said ..."Amen!"
02-07-2018 08:40 AM
klr4evr
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post
Albert, I've been reviewing your video some more..........
A big shout out thank you to @pdwestman for taking the time to give a full expert analysis. I for one appreciate the input and advice he freely offers. Thanks for being such a big part of this forum.
02-07-2018 04:36 AM
timberfoot I bought my KLR Brand new in July. I have never had any trouble starting it at all. Not even the very first time I started it at the dealership.
I did have a minor problem; a coolant lead caused by a loose coolant line clamp. I could have fixed it easily my self, but bugger that, the thing had only done one thousand Kilometers! That means any problem is the dealer's problem, or Kawasaki's problem. I took it back to the dealer and had them fix it.

I would have demanded they fix any problem in the first couple of thousand kilometers.

I advise you to fix nothing, adjust nothing and demand the dealer take care of their problem.

I wish you all the luck in the world

Regards

Timberfoot
02-06-2018 09:06 PM
pdwestman Albert, I've been reviewing your video some more.

You are letting off of the starter button about 2 rotations of the engine too soon in several of the attempts. It is a single cylinder engine, it does Not have an extra 3, 5 or 7 cylinders to carry the engine thru to the next firing of that 1st & only cylinder.

Time slots, :38-:52 / 1:12-1:25 / 2:30-2:50 . You should have left your thumb on the button just 2 more seconds.

It is Not like an automotive starter. On most Japanese bikes, one can leave their thumb on the starter button for a minute or even two with the engine running and will it not have any grinding of teeth like a car. Because it is a one-way sprag clutch engagement system, not a spiral Bendix drive.
Heck, one could even engage the starter button at red-line on any Kawasaki motorcycle that I can remember, with no ill effects. Heck, the next time it is running try it, you will hear what I mean. No problem.

At 1:48 you appear to have used the cold start enrichner upon getting the bike un-stuck from the sand. I assume that the engine was fully up to temperature before riding into the sand. Wrong move.
You should have put the starter and therefore engine into motion and then gently rolled the throttle open. Keeping your thumb on the button until after the engine was in full running mode, or a thirty second count, whichever comes 1st.

At 2:54-2:55 when you do finally get it started, it sounds like it is only going to idle at about 900-1100 rpm. That is usually Too SLOW.

At 3:11-3:14, you are releasing the button too soon again. Quit playing tap,tap,tap. CRANK IT.

At 3:22-4:55 is where I really noticed that I wasn't hearing much 'Thump, Thump, Thump' from the non-running/non-firing exhaust pipe. But, Too Low of idle speed setting will reduce the amount of air being compressed, so one could have less 'thump,thump,thump'. Did you ever just gently roll the throttle open in this time frame?

At 5:02-5:04 I see your wrist flinch. Which allows more air in, which creates more compression, which allows the engine to start.

I truly think that an idle speed adjustment (1200 +/- 100) and these tips will probably eliminate your starting issues.
If not, show the dealership how much slack is in the choke cable with the procedure I earlier described. And if it is slack like I suspect, insist that they remove the tank to properly adjust it and Perform a Cold Cranking Compression test while the fuel tank is removed. 90+psi should be good.
02-06-2018 06:52 PM
pdwestman Daniel,
I've no idea about any other brands delivery of new motorcycles to their dealers, but not a single Kawasaki motorcycle ever delivered to the previously oldest Kawasaki dealership in the USA ever was delivered un-crated. And there was always some assembly required! More assembly than many realize on many models.

On the 1987-2016 KLR650's, the fuel tank was empty, but it was installed. Normally no need to remove a KLR650 fuel tank to perform final assembly, final preparation & test ride. And I always insisted on putting on at least the 1st 5 miles to check all transmission gears, bed in the brake pads & scrub in as much radius of the tires as possible.

The Gen 1 choke cable adjuster is/was near the lever, easily re-adjusted.
The Gen 2, they buried it along the frame spine, but in a 65-85f shop a KLR650 will normally start even if the cable is allowing only 1/2 choke.

The Gen 2 choke cable can be easily adjusted properly (if needed) during the 500 mile break-in maintenance. Which the fuel tank should be removed to properly perform.
But if the cable truly Needs adjustment before then, you are correct, it should be considered part of the PDI by the dealer & their customer.
02-06-2018 05:55 PM
Bluehighways I'd call Kawasaki’s USA Customer Service: 949-460-5688 Pacific Time, they're located in Orange County California.

They, I am certain, will be more than willing to "help" the dealer resolve this issue!
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