Motorcyclists/Range Rover: Bad Deal - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
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post #1 of 96 Old 09-30-2013, 09:54 AM Thread Starter
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Motorcyclists/Range Rover: Bad Deal

So, what think you all of the events captured in this video? Apparently one rider that was run over was killed.

I've watched it several times. Unfortunately, you can't tell exactly what happened after the initial accident: all you can see is dozens and dozens of bikes swarming the scene before the RR bursts out and speeds off.

With the initial rear-end, it seems to me like the motorcycle pulls in front of the RR and intentionally slows down. Not saying it wasn't the RR driver's fault, but it didn't appear that the RR sped up to intentionally hit him.

Most rear-enders are automatically the fault of the rear vehicle, but in this instance, the bikers had created an unnecessary and unusual distraction by intentionally swarming the RR on all sides, with one of the riders clearly slowing by the driver's door and looking at the driver, although it's unclear what was exchanged there. I can see how the driver of the RR could become distracted by events that didn't need to happen in the first place.

There was no reason for the bikes to surround the Range Rover and certainly no reason for the motorcyclists to pull in front of it and slow down. This was clearly a coordinated attempt to get the RR to slow down and it didn't seem to me like the RR was doing anything wrong in the first place.

It is unknown whether anything happened prior to the filming starting, but it didn't seem as if the bikers were intentionally pursuing the RR after some incident that occurred before the filming began. If they were, they were wrong to do so.

If shown this video in court, I would have no problem acquitting the driver of the RR, especially if he/she had his wife/husband/kids in the car at the time. To me, this situation could clearly invoke justified feelings of the fear of imminent bodily harm and at that point, it would be too late to call the police for aid. It's not too hard to break out car windows and attack people so the people inside the RR, surrounded by that many angry bikers, were clearly in a position of great danger, IMHO.

Even if the first mishap was an accident and was my fault, I don't think I would sit there being surrounded by a shitload of angry motorcyclists, especially since they later ran down the car, surrounded it and started trying to break out the windows. If I felt I was being threatened with serious bodily injury, I would have taken off, too, and if there was a motorcycle and a rider blocking my path, I would have gone right over them if that was my only means of escape.

This happened in New York, but had this happened to me here in Missouri, I probably would have stayed put at the first accident scene and if somebody broke out my windows and reached in, or if somebody started throwing large objects through my windows, I would have just started shooting them and it all would have ended right there one way or another. No point in creating a moving Mad Max-style scenario on public highways and endangering other motorists or pedestrians who might get caught up in it.

It's sometimes a crazy world we live in. I would have expected this video to be on a Russian dash cam, not an American one.

Me? The group of cyclists was wrong to surround, harass and try to slow the Ranger Rover and even if the initial rear-ender was an accident, that was the fault of not only the guy who pulled in front of the RR and intentionally slowed, but also the riders surrounding the vehicle, not only distracting the driver but also limiting what he could do to extract himself from the situation in a safe and practical manner. Perhaps he even felt they were trying to surround him and force him off the road? It seems like a reasonable thought to me. Why else would a bunch of motorcycles suddenly surround my vehicle? That's not a normal thing to do.

Without further long winded ado here's the video. Make of it what you will:





Last edited by planalp; 09-30-2013 at 10:02 AM.
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post #2 of 96 Old 09-30-2013, 11:05 AM Thread Starter
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Here's another, more detailed report: accuracy unknown, but it does seem to be a fact that his wife and child under 5 were also in the vehicle and this and other reports don't mention any of the motorcyclists being killed or severely injured.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.1471585



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post #3 of 96 Old 09-30-2013, 11:42 AM
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i wouldn't have hesitated a second, well maybe a second but if my family and i were surrounded by a group of ass's (putting it mildly) like that, i would do what i had to keep my family safe.


the riders look to be 100% to blame for the entire incident, hopefully the video will allow the police to make arrests and prove the RR driver had no choice but to protect his family.

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post #4 of 96 Old 09-30-2013, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planalp View Post

...

Me? The group of cyclists was wrong to surround, harass and try to slow the Ranger Rover and even if the initial rear-ender was an accident, that was the fault of not only the guy who pulled in front of the RR and intentionally slowed, but also the riders surrounding the vehicle, not only distracting the driver but also limiting what he could do to extract himself from the situation in a safe and practical manner. Perhaps he even felt they were trying to surround him and force him off the road? It seems like a reasonable thought to me. Why else would a bunch of motorcycles suddenly surround my vehicle? That's not a normal thing to do.

I think what was going on was that the bikes were creating a rolling road block so they could do stunts. I've seen videos of that happening on freeways. They seem to think that they are entilted to disrupt other people's lives for their fun. The Range Rover probably wasn't aware of their "right" to impede traffic. My guess is that the RR was on the phone with 911 at the time.

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post #5 of 96 Old 09-30-2013, 01:16 PM
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interestingly the title has changed from "Bikers attack suv after driver rams riders" to "Bikers terrorize family in high-speed chase"

which from what i saw is a more fitting title

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post #6 of 96 Old 09-30-2013, 01:29 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by a4twenty View Post
interestingly the title has changed from "Bikers attack suv after driver rams riders" to "Bikers terrorize family in high-speed chase"

which from what i saw is a more fitting title
Good point about the differing video and print headlines and titles. There are a few incarnations of the whole episode: depends on how somebody wants to spin it.



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post #7 of 96 Old 09-30-2013, 01:33 PM
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"Rashomon Effect."

Look it up; I dare you!

Last edited by Damocles; 09-30-2013 at 01:48 PM.
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post #8 of 96 Old 09-30-2013, 02:08 PM
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That just makes me sad on so many levels. And the poor people in the SUV must have been terrified. Kids? Jesus.

I don't know what I would have done, but I don't blame the driver one bit. What a pointless thing. And I feel for the bikers who were muttering in their helmets, "yo, what **** are you guys doing! Stop!" cause there had to be a few.

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post #9 of 96 Old 09-30-2013, 02:21 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
"Rashomon Effect."

Look it up; I dare you!
Rashomon Effect: Remember that from my training at work and see the effect in action on a daily basis, although a lot of times at work, "interpreting things differently" usually means "I'll make up any kind of interpretation I can possibly think of to avoid the consequences of doing something wrong."

Not saying that's commonplace with all people, just with the individuals I deal with every day.

People truly can see the same thing in entirely different ways.



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post #10 of 96 Old 09-30-2013, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by planalp View Post
Rashomon Effect: Remember that from my training at work and see the effect in action on a daily basis, although a lot of times at work, "interpreting things differently" usually means "I'll make up any kind of interpretation I can possibly think of to avoid the consequences of doing something wrong."

Not saying that's commonplace with all people, just with the individuals I deal with every day.

People truly can see the same thing in entirely different ways.
I think your example expresses rather fully the Rashomon Effect, planalp:
Quote:
". . . interpreting things differently" usually means "I'll make up any kind of interpretation I can possibly think of to avoid the consequences of doing something wrong."
Different perceptions of the same event among different observers appears inevitable; the Rashomon component colors each observer's discernment, as self-serving interests influence the perception.

Real-life examples? Too many to choose from!

Imagine one of the "biker boyz" (yes, "boyz" with a "z") testifying in court, in contrast to, say, the driver or the wife-and-mother in the car. Same event? Yes. Different stories? You bet!
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