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post #11 of 15 Old 02-02-2020, 10:20 PM Thread Starter
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@GreatWhiteNorth, I did not remove the idler, but I did see the slot. I removed the drain bolt and used a flashlight to look as best I could see. Also I threw the bike around as much as I could to see if I could get it to move around some if it was in there. I also swept around with a long hooked pick but never did find it. I figured it may have just been left out when it was assembled at the factory or fell out as it had the stock Doo and spring so I don't think it had been opened.

Should I tear it back down? Or maybe get ahold of a magnetic drain bolt? I am pretty certain it was not in there but not sure if I'll ever be certain unless I find and remove one... Thanks for the help.
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post #12 of 15 Old 02-03-2020, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by rockymountainhi View Post
@GreatWhiteNorth, I did not remove the idler, but I did see the slot. I removed the drain bolt and used a flashlight to look as best I could see. Also I threw the bike around as much as I could to see if I could get it to move around some if it was in there. I also swept around with a long hooked pick but never did find it. I figured it may have just been left out when it was assembled at the factory or fell out as it had the stock Doo and spring so I don't think it had been opened.

Should I tear it back down? Or maybe get ahold of a magnetic drain bolt? I am pretty certain it was not in there but not sure if I'll ever be certain unless I find and remove one... Thanks for the help.
Unfortunately, odds are that the Woodruff key made it's way thru that slot, down into the sump. There's a similar slot on the RH side of the engine, but the clutch cover (and water pump) have to come off to to access that. There are baffles in the case bottoms that complicates things a bit, but sweeping the sump bottom with a small magnet usually does the trick. I use E-M magnetic drain plugs, but doubt that'd ever catch that Woodruff key.

PD mentioned a little trick, peening either side of the Woodruff key (with a centre punch) before reinstalling it into the slot on the crank - that works well (I've done it a few times building up KLR engines).

Sometimes that Woodruff key will stick to the (magnetized) flywheel/rotor on removal, but in my experience, when it inadvertently gets pushed out, it usually tinkles to the bottom (can hear it happening).

Here in this pic, you can see that I fished out a doohickey spring thru that clutch side slot I'm talking about. I found that spring MIA when I removed the flywheel on an '08 (with only around 6,000 miles on it) to do the doohickey mod - I could actually see it laying in the bottom of the sump, looking thru that slot with a strong flashlight.



Edit - there are more openings on the RH side of the case, that allow you to see into, and access the bottom of the sump, but more disassembly required!


Last edited by GreatWhiteNorth; 02-03-2020 at 08:44 AM.
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post #13 of 15 Old 02-03-2020, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by rockymountainhi View Post
I figured it may have just been left out when it was assembled at the factory or fell out as it had the stock Doo and spring so I don't think it had been opened.

Should I tear it back down? Or maybe get ahold of a magnetic drain bolt? I am pretty certain it was not in there but not sure if I'll ever be certain unless I find and remove one... Thanks for the help.
In 44 years in this business I've never found the factory to leave out a flywheel woodruff key.

If we would all perform the dis-assembly & re-assembly at TDC, little things like this would be less likely lost. But I really wish that the factories would stipple woodruff keys when they assemble.

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post #14 of 15 Old 02-08-2020, 09:26 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rockymountainhi View Post
@GreatWhiteNorth, I did not remove the idler, but I did see the slot. I removed the drain bolt and used a flashlight to look as best I could see. Also I threw the bike around as much as I could to see if I could get it to move around some if it was in there. I also swept around with a long hooked pick but never did find it. I figured it may have just been left out when it was assembled at the factory or fell out as it had the stock Doo and spring so I don't think it had been opened.

Should I tear it back down? Or maybe get ahold of a magnetic drain bolt? I am pretty certain it was not in there but not sure if I'll ever be certain unless I find and remove one... Thanks for the help.
Unfortunately, odds are that the Woodruff key made it's way thru that slot, down into the sump. There's a similar slot on the RH side of the engine, but the clutch cover (and water pump) have to come off to to access that. There are baffles in the case bottoms that complicates things a bit, but sweeping the sump bottom with a small magnet usually does the trick. I use E-M magnetic drain plugs, but doubt that'd ever catch that Woodruff key.

PD mentioned a little trick, peening either side of the Woodruff key (with a centre punch) before reinstalling it into the slot on the crank - that works well (I've done it a few times building up KLR engines).

Sometimes that Woodruff key will stick to the (magnetized) flywheel/rotor on removal, but in my experience, when it inadvertently gets pushed out, it usually tinkles to the bottom (can hear it happening).

Here in this pic, you can see that I fished out a doohickey spring thru that clutch side slot I'm talking about. I found that spring MIA when I removed the flywheel on an '08 (with only around 6,000 miles on it) to do the doohickey mod - I could actually see it laying in the bottom of the sump, looking thru that slot with a strong flashlight.



Edit - there are more openings on the RH side of the case, that allow you to see into, and access the bottom of the sump, but more disassembly required!


Yeah, it looks like lots of places for a key to hide. I know I didn't drop it when I swapped the rotors though because when I removed the rotor bolt I could see the keyway was empty before removing the rotor. Odd though that it was lined up just fine still. I had not thought of the original assembler pushing the key out and it maybe getting stuck to the rotor. I swapped the rotor into my dead engine so I will tear that one down on the bench and see if I can find the missing key. If I can't find it I will drain and tear down the replacement engine in the bike and try some magnets. I did stipple the key when I installed the proper rotor and checked to make sure it didn't fall out once installed on the shaft. Thanks for the help.

Last edited by rockymountainhi; 02-08-2020 at 09:29 AM. Reason: Forgot to mention stippling
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post #15 of 15 Old 02-08-2020, 09:47 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockymountainhi View Post
I figured it may have just been left out when it was assembled at the factory or fell out as it had the stock Doo and spring so I don't think it had been opened.

Should I tear it back down? Or maybe get ahold of a magnetic drain bolt? I am pretty certain it was not in there but not sure if I'll ever be certain unless I find and remove one... Thanks for the help.
In 44 years in this business I've never found the factory to leave out a flywheel woodruff key.

If we would all perform the dis-assembly & re-assembly at TDC, little things like this would be less likely lost. But I really wish that the factories would stipple woodruff keys when they assemble.
It is possible the previous owner had dropped the key and not the factory I suppose. I just figured it had not been opened because the doohickey was stock and there was case glue on the gaskets. Anyhow, I am sure the key was not in the slot as when I took the rotor bolt out, the keyway was empty. But, it being a used replacement engine I suppose I will tear it down to try and locate the key as I don't know for sure it's not in there still. I have ridden the bike 25-30 miles since installing the motor so hopefully it has moved to a place I can find it this time. Thanks for the advice.
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