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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well picked up a "real" project bike. Bike has title and almost all the parts are there. Had a major oil issue and the decompression device nuked hard. So cam journals, exhaust cam and valve cover are done.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2mLZCo8]DSCN0029 by Tim Brown, on Flickr[/URL]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2mLXATc]DSCN0030 by Tim Brown, on Flickr[/URL]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2mLR8bV]DSCN0020 by Tim Brown, on Flickr[/URL]
Now what to do?
Do I have the head sent in and havae the "journals" fixed and get some hot cams and do the 685 kit?
Should I get a new used engine on line.

I will keep reading on the forums and see what else I can find. Any suggestions are great....

Hope all are having a good Holiday.
 

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2013 KLR 650/692, 2017 HD Electraglide Ultra
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Tough choice. I hope you didn’t spend more than a few hundred bucks for it. If you plan to keep the bike, I’d recommend you fix and rebuild what you have. That way you know what you have, which will be an almost new engine. If you buy a “running engine” off eBay, there’s a good chance you’ll have to do more work to it anyway.

It also depends on how much other damage there is.
You know you’ll need a new valve cover and exhaust cam. Has the doohickey been replaced? Oil drain plug threads good or damaged?

Call Eagle Mike, and send him the pics. My guess is it will be about $1000 to fix what you have.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Yes the bike was cheep enough, but it still shocked me that there was that much damage. I am looking for parts now and seems that a good used engine for parts might be the way to go. Still looking and trying to find the best way.

As for the threads, I think there is enough there if I wanted to fix it or have it TIG welded.

I will give Eagle Mike a call on Monday to see if he has the ability to take are of those cam journals. If so, I would just do all that with him and get the 685 kit as well.
 

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2013 KLR 650/692, 2017 HD Electraglide Ultra
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Go for the 692. Some of the esteemed long-term members here think you should go to 685 first, which leaves room for another re-bore to 692, in case you manage to wear out the piston somehow. I doubt I’ll ever wear out a piston/cylinder in my remaining lifetime. So I went for the 692. Costs the same.
 

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Lack of engine oil Volume is what wiped out the exhaust cam bearing journals, allowing the RH end of the EX camshaft to flail around and the KACR to make destructive contact.
Engine Dynamics has the best camshaft bearing journal repair that I am aware of, ENGINE DYNAMICS
They line-bore the the bearing journals & install replaceable bronze insert bearing shells.

I recently re-assembled a KLR that had in the not too distant past a 685 EM piston kit installed about 1200 miles prior and had been run all of those 1200+ miles with a Brand New Uni-Filter. Which the previous owner/rebuilder had installed during his 685 rebuild, Totally UN-OILED! (The same stupidity probably took out the original piston & rings.)

Thankfully, that nit-wit previous owner, had NOT chosen to use the 692 kit!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for all the good advise. I did order a used engine from ebay as the one I had also had the oil plug broken off. Not so much that can't be welded but wow, I should have looked better.

Took the jug off today and look again at the head. All 4 valves on the head are bent. Not too sure if I want to even try to get them out or just wait on the other engine. I think my current top end malfunction is on the bad side, so hoping no matter what I get in will be better. The best head will get the work done to it.

I have the valve cover taken care of with the other engine.

Hot cams I will have to look into and then keep reading up on the 685 or 692. As far as the cams go if I am getting them then I have to have a valve job and or ported and polled to get all the benefits.

I understand that if you go to a 692 and something happens you have to get a new sleeve. But how often does the jug and piston get damaged compered to the head?

The PO must have been a younger person or looking for cool effect. There was a LED light effect kit under the tank and under the rear fender for cool effects.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2mM8ME5]259265175_220340680237556_7340192833828473703_n by Tim Brown, on Flickr[/URL]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2mMdjGb]258948201_610608783312150_1898967734869745657_n by Tim Brown, on Flickr[/URL]
The hole in the pic above was from a bulb holder in the pic below. Three of them stuck along the rear fender as well.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2mM4J7c]261133883_1093610618044766_3149536697468812565_n by Tim Brown, on Flickr[/URL]
Lots of speaker wire, two LED stips, tank and rear fender and three bulbs. Guessing this was just a road bike by the looks of the rear tire.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2mM4J5D]258881434_1202149000277310_8034924989487557263_n by Tim Brown, on Flickr[/URL]
 

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2013 KLR 650/692, 2017 HD Electraglide Ultra
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If the valves are bent, then the piston hit them, probably because the cam chain skipped over the sprockets, and that may have been caused by the KACR coming loose and jamming against the cam cover so hard that the cover broke. I’ll bet that when you take that engine apart further, you’ll find more damage. So, buying a complete replacement engine was probably a good decision.

But don’t take anything for granted in the replacement engine either. Disassemble and inspect everything down to the engine cases. If the bottom end doesn’t have signs of damage, then you’re probably ok to leave the cases together.

NOTE: Read Tom’s “Souperdoo” site about clutches and other differences between years of bikes. Otherwise you may end up with a clutch that doesn’t fit or work correctly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I am wondering if only the exhaust valves are bent and some bits are just holding the intakes open. I can't get the shim holders out of the exhaust side yet, they move but not coming out. I will brake down the head even more if I can. I guess it might be worth fixing someday down the line.

The piston does look untouched, I will post some pics of the top, have not touch it to clean it up. I know that normally collision is what cause the valves to bend, but it might be the valves are just stuck out and non seated from bits of the cam journals holding them in place. Pics and more to come on that.

Going to work on getting all the pain off the body panels, fenders and tank. Wow what a rattle can job that was. I will try the carb cleaner trick with rags first and go from there. Have all the water hoses stored for winter already.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Here is what I found today:
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2mMyfK6]8 by Tim Brown, on Flickr[/URL]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2mMB4zB]13 by Tim Brown, on Flickr[/URL]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2mMxXe9]5 by Tim Brown, on Flickr[/URL]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2mMxX8h]7 by Tim Brown, on Flickr[/URL]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2mMzZak]0 by Tim Brown, on Flickr[/URL]
I am scratching my head on this one. How did three valves get damaged when the exhaust cam let lose? There should be damage on the bottom of the head or on the piston...nothing. Very interesting.

Almost as interesting as how my times this bike has been painted over. Started out as red (factory?), then a brighter red, metal flake red or orange, Kaw green and then black when I bought it.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2mMyfDQ]14 by Tim Brown, on Flickr[/URL]
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The valves were out of sync/time and collided with one another and not the piston.

Jason
That is the best explanation I have heard, thanks. I know she is a beat up bike, I know I will have to go over ever nut and bolt on the bike. The rear axle was in great shape and still have lots of grease on it. 520 chain is rested but in good shape. The rear brakes were really gone, as in started to weld to the rear rotor. Front brakes are still there enough not to hurt the rotor.

I am still wondering what this bike was used for? Four different paint jobs after factory, the LED lighting kit, not too sure if someone was trying to use it as a show bike or what. Anyway, just have never seen a dual purpose motorcycle that has been so visually changed.

Hoping the used engine I purchaced this week is shipped today. Looking forward to looking at the top end and see how bad it is. Came off a "running motorcycle" we will see.
 

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I understand that if you go to a 692 and something happens you have to get a new sleeve.
There is no "right or wrong" regarding the 685 vs. 692 question IMO; it really depends on your values, usage and mindset. Either will last a long time and possibly longer that you will own the bike.......another possibility is that a potential sleeve job down the road may not be a big deal for you. I chose to go with the 685 because the difference between a 692 and a 685 is 1% which on a 34hp motorcycle equates to 1/3hp so I figured the ability to upsize down the road without the more expensive sleeving process was worth passing up on the miniscule power difference. I figure my 685, airbox mods, air filter, jetting and silencer add about 5-6 rwhp so an extra fraction of one hp wasn't going to be missed. YMMV


Dave
 

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The valves were out of sync/time and collided with one another and not the piston.

Jason
How do valves collide with one another? I am having difficulty either understanding what is being said or visualizing this.
 
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I am scratching my head on this one. How did three valves get damaged when the exhaust cam let lose? There should be damage on the bottom of the head or on the piston...nothing. Very interesting.

The valves were out of sync/time and collided with one another and not the piston.
Look at the contact marks, that didn't happen.

Timbox,
The Exhaust valve that did not get bent was the RH Exhaust valve correct?
The severely worn /damaged RH cam bearing CAP meant that the RH cam lobe could NOT push that RH valve as far Open as the LH lobe still could.

Looking at the RH Exhaust valve relief pocket of the piston, it might have just lightly kissed the carbon. If one rolled that RH Exhaust valve in a vee block or turn in a drill or lathe it might show a small tweak of its head.
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I will go back and look over everything again. I didn't see any contact or "kiss" marks on the piston. Planning on getting new 685 piston anyway, so will not be reused.

Yes I think the RH exhaust was the only one that you can't see damage on. This engine had a catastrophic failure of the exhaust cam and the KACR. Enough to not olnly shatter KACR, disloge the shim for the RJ exhaust valve but it also losten, lifted the RH exhaust valve journal cover. The vavle cover was also busted above the KACR.

Other news, the shipping of the engine was so high, the seller backed out of the deal and refunded me my money. I will have to make some calls to local salvage yards tomorrow.

I might just have to sent in the head to be milled and have those brass journals installed. Get a new valve cover and have the oil plug TIG welded at this rate. I have all winter to tinker so I can wait it out.
 

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If you have the drain plug boss welded and then re-tapped on the assembled engine, the welding will burn-out the center case seam sealant.
J-B Weld will then need to be applied over the center seam to seal it. J-B Weld is your friend, my friend.
I've seen that, fixed that. Cheaply.
 
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