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So it's sunny and 83, I have a little work I have to do, so I figure I will take a ride on my newly painted bike. I go grab the work truck, and I hop on the freeway, and it's stopped. It takes me 45 minutes to travel 1 mile. I kick on the news radio, and a motorcycle fatality has happened. I figure that by the time I will pass it it will be cleared. Wrong... I finally pass the area, and there is the body in the road with the Yellow tarp, and the one gloved hand sticking out. I can't look any more, and turn my head, and say a little prayer for him, and his family, and move on to work with a heavy heart, and the reality that I don't want to ride today, It just doesn't feel right. I find out later after reading the newspaper online, that it was a 19 year old kid on a litre Ninja, that came upon stopped traffic, and never hit his brakes,and smashed into a Limo van, and died instantly. The irony of this is that the limo van that he hit was one of our memebers van. He had called me from England to let me know that his company van had been struck, and I had to let him know what truly happened. Yes... It was the "Enforcer's" company from the PPMC. This really sucks on all fronts. I did not ride today, the driver of van has taken the next few days off. I feel really bad for the families of both, but wonder...
 

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Wow. That seriously sucks for everyone involved. Sorry to hear about it man. Sorry you had to see it. And for D.

Really sorry for the guy driving the van and the family of the kid.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
DanbKLR, and I talked about going to this kids memorial. It was today. We grabbed the bikes, and decided to attend. We don't know him, but this tragic incident has impacted us both in different ways. We both thought, would riding the bikes there, somehow be a negitive thing for the family? The thought was brief, and we pushed on. We arrived and we were the only bikes there. The service was standing-room only. It was a good service, and my heart was heavy again. We left the service only to find more bikes parked next to us, so that made me feel a little better, and we rode to a Pub, to talk, and hoist a pint to the victim. I don't know what to think at this point, I guess I am just airing it out. Kid's, and Litre bikes... It just does'nt make sense.

MB4
 

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That was good of you guys to do. I'm proud to know you both.

Soon, we ride.
 

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and we rode to a Pub, to talk, and hoist a pint to the victim. I don't know what to think at this point, I guess I am just airing it out. Kid's, and Litre bikes... It just does'nt make sense.

MB4
I'm sure I'll be hounded for this but I don't care. The comment above is totally illogical to me. You're riding and stop to drink alcohol in memory of a kid who died on a bike?:( I hope the irony is obvious to you.:46: A truly concerned individual NEVER drinks before or while riding, just like a pilot should never drink before flying. Riding a bike is a balance and coordination based activity, something alcohol doesn't enhance.

Prayers to the families of both the driver and rider.:ashamed0001:
 

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I agree Buildit... interesting twist talking about riding to a pub and drinking.

No more silly then thinking prayers to a fake sky daddy will accomplish anything either.

No more silly then a remark about kids and litre bikes either. People and kids die on all bikes and all other types of vehicles. The bike being a sporty had nothing to do with it.

I don't let other peoples motorcycle accidents phase me one bit. Unless you plan to change the way you ride in some way, what's the point of analyzing it? We all strive to ride as safe as we want to. We choose to wear gear or not wear gear. Helmet, no helmet. Fast or slow. Just ride on people and enjoy the time we have, it's the only life we get!
 

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..I don't know what to think at this point, I guess I am just airing it out. Kid's, and Litre bikes... It just does'nt make sense.

MB4
It was good of you guys to go to the memorial. The family didn't know you, nor why you were there, but you were there. There is spirit in this world, and solidarity and karma, and it all counts for something when the tally comes up.

I don't know what to say about liter bikes and young riders. I've poked around a bit - he was not an inexperienced rider and he did ride the Ninja often and in sporting fashion, but clearly was going too fast for the conditions at that moment. This is not a time to extend blame to any persons, as it's too late, but I would wish for better training opportunities for young riders. Something well beyond MSF. Something with a sobering effect.

If you have an opportunity, please extend condolences to the van driver, as that had to be a shattering experience for him.

Tom
 

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It was good of you guys to go to the memorial. The family didn't know you, nor why you were there, but you were there. There is spirit in this world, and solidarity and karma, and it all counts for something when the tally comes up.

I don't know what to say about liter bikes and young riders. I've poked around a bit - he was not an inexperienced rider and he did ride the Ninja often and in sporting fashion, but clearly was going too fast for the conditions at that moment. This is not a time to extend blame to any persons, as it's too late, but I would wish for better training opportunities for young riders. Something well beyond MSF. Something with a sobering effect.

If you have an opportunity, please extend condolences to the van driver, as that had to be a shattering experience for him.

Tom
Well said. I've been watching information about some motorcycle reps who are leaning towards having the US adopt European standards for motorcycle licensing. From what I've read they have a tier system based on experience, as to what bikes you can be licensed to ride. I've read nothing that indicates weather it reduces fatalities or riding accidents. As one person replied, "owning a smaller gun doesn't mean you won't shoot yourself in the foot".:49:
 

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Here is what I was talking about.

http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/faq/europe.html
Licensing

16-18 years:
moped or maximum 125cc (the Netherlands, allows only moped. Until a few years ago only insurance was required, now one also requires a moped license)
18-21 years:
maximum 25kW or 0.16kW/kg (A list of bikes that comply has been added at the end of this document)
21+:
unrestricted license (Germany's motorcycle manufacturers had a voluntary restriction to 100hp, but that has expired. In Germany, and perhaps under the new UE rules, the age for an unrestricted license is 25. Between 18 and 24 you're limited to 25kW for two years, or get approved training and you're unrestricted.)
21+ with only a car license:
maximum 125cc (the Netherlands does not allow the operation of any motorcycle (50cc+) without a motorcycle license)
In the UK, 16 year-olds can’t ride 125s. If you’re over 21 you can take your test on a bike bigger or more powerful than 33bhp and go straight onto bigger bikes.
 

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here in the uk you can ride a 50cc at 16 then at 17 a 125 on L plates, if you do the full test on a 125 your power restriction goes to 33bhp for 2 years then unlimited so if you pass the test on your 17th birthday you could ride any power bike at 19 (my power restriction will run out 3 months after i turn 20 - iv skipped the last bit cos my klr is stock) if you are over 21 or turn 21 while still on 33bhp limit there is another test to ride any power straight away (i know someone who got a 600 gsxr never ridden a bike before........... stupid laws)
 

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Size of the engine doesn't affect a thing and I wouldn't care what the stats said. My little 500 ninja was a terror machine and WAY more dangerous then a 600 because it was smaller, weighed less and tires were skinnier. Same goes for the 250, those suckers have some power vs the size of the bike and tires. Anything that will hang in traffic is dangerous. I, however, find mopeds and the idiots who ride them to be more danger then motorcycles because they can't flow with traffic, hold everyone up and piss everyone off. I rarely see them obey the traffic laws either.

I don't know what the answer is, but more mandated training is merely a money maker and accomplishes nothing. You can't train attentiveness, it's developed over time. You can't train the need for speed out of them either. The problems aren't training related no more then issues with young drivers and vehicles are. They drive with too many passengers, listen to overbearing radio, talk on cell phones and text message. You can't train that stuff out of people.
 

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Like I indicated small guns don't make it any harder for an inexperienced person to shoot themself in the foot. But there is a definite advantage to riders who are better trained. However, I've never heard a MSF trainer say the MSF course will teach you how to ride on the road. It is designed to make you a better rider overall. But the real advantage goes to riders who surround themselves with other responsible and skilled riders. That sort of hand me down experience is priceless and can't be bought, mandated or government controlled.
 

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I, however, find mopeds and the idiots who ride them to be more danger then motorcycles because they can't flow with traffic, hold everyone up and piss everyone off. I rarely see them obey the traffic laws either.
We've got a lot of topics going on here, but Wanderer, I disagree with you regarding mopeds. They're on two wheels, with an engine, just like you. They get the same thrill that you do, or at least a similar one. If you don't believe me, try riding a moped or scooter - they're a blast. If we go by your logic, what about bicycles - they're stupid people too? they sure don't go with the flow of traffic, and they often don't obey the laws either.

I embrace all who ride. Period.

My dad rides a goldwing and loves it. I much prefer lighter and higher seated bikes, so I ride a KLR. Many of my friends like to be low to the ground and tuck, so they ride Ninja's and the like. We all get the thrill from different bikes. There's few enough of us that we need to stick together. You'll always be a rider to me Wanderer - and that means I'll always do what I can to help you....even if you decide to ride a Vespa.
 

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We've got a lot of topics going on here, but Wanderer, I disagree with you regarding mopeds. They're on two wheels, with an engine, just like you. They get the same thrill that you do, or at least a similar one. If you don't believe me, try riding a moped or scooter - they're a blast. If we go by your logic, what about bicycles - they're stupid people too? they sure don't go with the flow of traffic, and they often don't obey the laws either.

I embrace all who ride. Period.

My dad rides a goldwing and loves it. I much prefer lighter and higher seated bikes, so I ride a KLR. Many of my friends like to be low to the ground and tuck, so they ride Ninja's and the like. We all get the thrill from different bikes. There's few enough of us that we need to stick together. You'll always be a rider to me Wanderer - and that means I'll always do what I can to help you....even if you decide to ride a Vespa.
Bravo! As someone who has owned MC's, mopeds, and scooters, I couldn't agree more. Thanks for taking the time to post this. I couldn't have said it better.
 

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Well, come on by to my town and see about straightening out all the moped idiots then, cause they are complete and utter douchebags around here.
 

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Well, come on by to my town and see about straightening out all the moped idiots then, cause they are complete and utter douchebags around here.
Dude. Two words. Moped Army. You can't swing a frickin dead cat without hitting one of them around here. Some are douchebags. Some are not. Same thing could be said about KLR riders, bus drivers, doctors, priests, etc.
 

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When I was 12yo I got a moped and before I was 14 I had 500miles on it just riding up and down the 1 mile long street illegally. At 14 I got my license and by the time I was 16yo had 6,000miles on it. I went everywhere on it, even to school. But I'll admit it was painfully slow and I know it would frustrate drivers following me. I can also say it was painfully obvious how some riders were dicks on them. Oddly, I've seen the same action by car drivers and MC riders as I've gotten older. A vehicle doesn't make you an idiot, it just makes the bad driving decisions you make more obvious. :) I'll stop before I reach Harley riders.:50:
 

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I agree with Lockjaw and Buildit - anyone can be on any kind of two wheeled vehicle and be an a$$hole. When it comes to this group vs car drivers, I always seem to be more forthcoming with help, particularly if the party seems interested in the least to receive it - be it from what psi their tire should be, to what type of oil to use, to farkles, etc. I seem more interested in turning two wheel drivers to the "light side." :) Part of it is without question due to the fact that we need to stick together as a group, and part of it is that I'm in that group and if that rider rides like a jerk, he makes me look bad by association.
 

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Having lived in the UK, Europe, and Japan and witnessed the tiered licensing system they use I have come to the conclusion that it just doesn't work. The tiered licensing system is merely a way of the government to squeeze out more money from the population to enjoy motorcycling and to discourage motorcycling in general. Its a dangerous activity and socialist countries are constantly trying to reduce the cost of healthcare. In Japan, the cost of an unlimited motorcycle license is so expensive very few riders can afford it. They spend their whole lives riding 400cc or smaller bikers because they simply can't afford something bigger. My opinion - the less rules restricting anything about motorcycling the better. I don't want to see young kids get hurt but motorcycling is inherently dangerous. What we need to do is to mentor young riders into learning how to ride safely. I don't know of a person who went out and bought a liter bike without speaking to more experienced riders first. Lets take a little responsibility for our Brothers (and Sisters) on two wheels.
 
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