Kawasaki KLR Forum banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Administrator
Joined
·
8,256 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have increased compression and no KACR. Quite often, when I hit the starter button, the starter won't turn the engine and I have to bump it a time or two to move the piston, then it starts right up. If the piston stopped at the right spot it will start instantly.

My battery checks at ~12.8 volts and ~11.4 volts during a 100A load test. The battery voltage is 12.4 volts after load test. I think it's good. But hey, I only paid $16.46 for it. If it ain't good I could replace it.

The battery was installed April 10, 2014.

I haven't done a cranking voltage test because I'd have to pull the tank to disable the ignition.

The battery is equivalent to a YTX14AHL-BS and should have about 210 CCA.

Anyone know of a battery with higher CCA? Could I get a hefty Li-Ion and get the equivalent of higher CCA?

I'm pretty stupid on battery tech.

Tom
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
8,256 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Need some more help from someone with a Gen 2.

When I engage my kill switch, the starter doesn't operate. I don't ever use the kill switch, but I thought it just killed the ignition.

Can someone verify that, when the kill switch on a Gen 2 is engaged, the starter will still operate?

Thanks,

Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,063 Posts
I have increased compression and no KACR. Quite often, when I hit the starter button, the starter won't turn the engine and I have to bump it a time or two to move the piston, then it starts right up. If the piston stopped at the right spot it will start instantly.

My battery checks at ~12.8 volts and ~11.4 volts during a 100A load test. The battery voltage is 12.4 volts after load test. I think it's good. But hey, I only paid $16.46 for it. If it ain't good I could replace it.

The battery was installed April 10, 2014.

I haven't done a cranking voltage test because I'd have to pull the tank to disable the ignition.

The battery is equivalent to a YTX14AHL-BS and should have about 210 CCA.

Anyone know of a battery with higher CCA? Could I get a hefty Li-Ion and get the equivalent of higher CCA?

I'm pretty stupid on battery tech.

Tom
I put one of these in my 2011 KLR this spring.
I'm happy with it...
YTX14AHL Moto Classic Sealed AGM Battery Replaces Yuasa YTX14AHL-BS, YB14AL-A2

280 CCA 14 Ah Sealed AGM etc.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
8,256 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Thanks Larry! I may look into one of those. I wasn't sure if it was possible to get more than 210 CCA out of that battery case. Glad to hear it is. Might solve my issues.

Tom
 

·
Threadjacker
Joined
·
6,768 Posts
Need some more help from someone with a Gen 2.

When I engage my kill switch, the starter doesn't operate. I don't ever use the kill switch, but I thought it just killed the ignition.

Can someone verify that, when the kill switch on a Gen 2 is engaged, the starter will still operate?

Thanks,

Tom
With the kill switch engaged, I get nothing. Crickets.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
8,256 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Well, I'll be damned. I should have known that, but on the Gen 1 bikes I am pretty sure the engine will crank. Used to be fun to flip Mark's kill switch, just to see the annoyed look on his face.

Sure makes it hard to do a cranking test on the Gen 2s; first time I've ever tried it and my expectations were different than reality.

Thanks for checking that for me, Dan.

Tom
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lockjaw

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,645 Posts
Well, I'll be damned. I should have known that, but on the Gen 1 bikes I am pretty sure the engine will crank. Used to be fun to flip Mark's kill switch, just to see the annoyed look on his face.

Sure makes it hard to do a cranking test on the Gen 2s; first time I've ever tried it and my expectations were different than reality.

Thanks for checking that for me, Dan.

Tom
Tom,
Both Gen1 and Gen2 bikes "kill the ignition and the Starter" with the kill switch. (I HATE bikes like the Kawasaki "Super Sherpa 250" which only kill the ignition, therefore allowing one to crank a DEAD ignition until the battery is also DEAD!)

I do not find a Shorai lithium battery with a short enough Length with More CCA to fit the KLR stock box! If one 'eliminates' the stock plastic panel and steel retainer like is required to install the 'Odessey Dry Cell' batteries from Happy Trails, one might 'stuff' a Tucker Rocky part #423813 Shorai battery with 315 CCA into the KLR. Length 5.83", Width 3.23", Height 5.51", Weight 3.10 lbs. Price $229.95!! (Has standard location of terminals.)

My question is, currently will the starter Not Turn the load? Or does the sprag starter clutch slip? Or does the 'Anti-Back Torque' gear slip?

If it grips and then slips and repeats I would blame the sprag clutch parts.

If it slips and slips and slips and then grips, I would blame the Back-Torque limiter gear. (This when I REALLY question 'automotive oil usage?)

We have kind of had this discussion before because of combining poor cold starting KACR mod, combined with 685 kit, combined with Lower Altitude, combined with MC Mod (Ex cam advancement)!
All of which increase the Cold Cranking Compression!
(If memory serves, 156 psi at 5300 feet was causing slippage. We don't know what the PSI was in Baja, CA at sea-level!)

What is your CCC at sea-level with the 11:1 Wossner piston and NO KACR?? (I have been wondering if you might have an "issue".)
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
8,256 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Paul,

The relay chatters and it seems that the starter motor is bumping the piton through TDC. It usually takes a couple of hits of the starter button and then it fires right off.

I'm getting curious enough that the next time it does it I'm going to pop the inspection plug and see if it really is at just BTDC.

No issues with the sprag or the torque limiter gears.

I haven't done a CCC with it yet.

I could have sworn we used to flip mark's kill switch and he'd hit the starter a few times before realizing the kill switch was on. Oh, well.

310 CCA sounds good, but $230 doesn't. I'm going to look at it, though.

Thanks!

Tom
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,903 Posts
I'm no battery expert either but my LiFePo's spin the engine faster/harder than the stock lead acid batteries did; and MAY help in your situation.....reserve capacity is less though, so you don't want to sit there and crank for a long time. I suspect that reading the ratings is a bit "apples and oranges" for comparing lead acid to LiFePo.

Wish you were closer, we could just try one of mine and see.....but if I were a betting man...


Dave
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
8,256 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Aw, c'mon, Dave! It's not far, it'll be fun!

I do remember reading about the apples and organes thing, which made me think I might be able to get a much more powerful battery in the Li-Fe-Po.

Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
335 Posts
Being were on the subject of batteries, why do we run a wet cell? I had an 85' shadow 1100 that had one and I just assumed that's the way they were back in the day. I was baffled to see one when I got my KLR.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,063 Posts
Battery

Thanks Larry! I may look into one of those. I wasn't sure if it was possible to get more than 210 CCA out of that battery case. Glad to hear it is. Might solve my issues.

Tom
I found it to be a snug fit. In my case, I did get it to slide in with no issues.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
8,256 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
...What is your CCC at sea-level with the 11:1 Wossner piston and NO KACR?? (I have been wondering if you might have an "issue".)
Paul,

The CCC is about 170psi. I expect that might go up as the engine wears in a bit.

While doing cold cranking I managed to get the engine stuck to where the starter relay was chattering. When it does that the cranking voltage drops to ~6v, so it's pulling a lot of amps.

Looking into the inspection port, when the starter gets stuck and the relay chatters the engine well into the compression stroke and is nearing the full advance timing mark. I'd guess that it is at 40°-30°BTDC when it gets stuck. I think the KACR would have the exhaust valve open at this point.

Moving the engine manually to TDC, the engine cranks over fine and cranking voltage is 10 - 10.5.

Today has been interesting...

Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,645 Posts
Tom,
I would like to think that the KACR had allowed the RH exhaust valve to close by about 90-70 degrees BTDC. But I do NOT know, I have not ever put a degree wheel on a KLR for any reason.

"Chatter" from the solenoid suggests a weak battery, generally.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
8,256 Posts
Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
...I would like to think that the KACR had allowed the RH exhaust valve to close by about 90-70 degrees BTDC...
What was I thinking? Strange things come out of my piehole.

..."Chatter" from the solenoid suggests a weak battery, generally.
Could it be that the chattering is the back-torque doing what it's supposed to do? What does that sound like?

Tom
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
8,256 Posts
Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Here's what I thought was happening:

The battery seems good. Today's results were: battery voltage 13.4V, 100A load 10.9V, battery voltage after load 13.3V, Cranking Voltage 10-10.5V.

I thought the chattering would be caused by the starter not being able to budge the engine when it was starting against the compression stroke. The cranking voltage dropped to 6V, indicating a huge amperage. The drop in voltage de-energized the relay, which cut voltage to the starter. That causes the voltage to rise, energizing the relay again and the starter tries again, drawing big amps and reducing the voltage again. Rinse, lather, repeat.

The thing with this chattering is that the starter will bump the piston around to the point where it can spin it up. Usually takes about three bumps.

If that is not the source of the chattering because it is a mechanical slippage in the back-torque, then a mas bodacious battery isn't going to help.

I'd like to be reasonably sure that it isn't mechanical before I order a new battery.

Tom
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
8,256 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Tomorrow sometime I'll take my special wonderful high-speed racing motorcycle jumper cables and hook the KLR up to the Forester. That oughta answer the question.

Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,547 Posts
Assumption: You have a functional KACR.

Speculation: Sometimes the engine stops at the "perfect storm" position, with the engine on the compression stroke, where the KACR is NOT cracking an exhaust valve. At that point, the battery current is insufficient to push the piston past the
wossner's hefty compression, denied the rotational inertia available initially when the piston has stopped at other indexing (than the "perfect storm" position).

If that's the case, a more robust battery might solve the problem. The, "jump the bike with a hot automobile battery" procedure may provide useful diagnostics. (Perhaps leading to a new battery with greater CCA; I have lithium batteries in my KLR650 and my KTM690; no problems, and I did NOT monkey with the charging systems in either.)

Then, even with a more powerful battery, you might want to put a li'l ol' lithium jumper battery (will start a V-8) in your tank bag, in case of any low-battery emergency.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top