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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Was about 3 miles into my ride today when she died at idle. Sounded like someone turned her key off. She was hard to start again and didn't for another 20 min. Finally got her started and limped her home. She died again at idle a few times on the ride home. Now she's in the garage and won't start.

I have a feeling it's a fuel issue. I'm going to check for fuel in the petcock vacuum line tomorrow. Maybe generally clean the carb?

Thanks for your help!
 

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Give us some info. What year is it? How many miles? What mods are done? When was the last time you rode it? Did it ever do this before? Does the carb have the factory afr plug (I've had an afr screw vibrate out on a bike)? How old is the gas in the tank? Is it the original spark plug? Does the choke lever have ample play in it? What's the typical idle?
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Sorry about that! :) Here's some info.

The bike is brand new to me. The chain had snapped on the previous owner, taking the stator wires with it. He had drained the gas and taken the carb off the bike for cleaning too. It had been sitting apart like that for a year before I took ownership of her. PO claimed that before the chain snapped, everything ran fine and she was his DD.

I replaced the stator wires and chain, put everything back together, put new gas in the tank and she fired right up! :) I was driving her around to get a sense of her when she died at idle nearly 3 miles into my ride.

She has tons of mods, but nothing performance-wise: stock exhaust, stock air intake, stock 650cc, stock petcock, stock carb. It's a CA model if that helps.

She's a 2007 and has 62k on her. I dunno when the valves were last checked. She backfired a few times on me while trying to restart. I'm not sure if it's because the valves are out of spec or if it was just a rich / lean backfire.

I think I might tear everything apart, clean everything and replace all of the vacuum / fuel lines this weekend.

Also, the battery is literally brand new. Spark plug looked clean as a whistle, too.
 

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Alright, got some work done today. Here's what I found out:
  • The ground on the voltage regulator was open. I tracked it down and connected it to the battery negative. Will check stator and voltage regulator voltages when I get the bike running again. Stator wires all had continuity.
  • Fuel tank vent lines were effed up (CA model). The red line was connected to the top of the evap canister and the blue line was venting to air. Evap canister is fubar anyway and needs replacing.
  • All of my valves are at 0.15mm, so it's time for new exhaust valve shims. I'll order some from eagle mike.
  • Petcock fuel line was wet and vacuum line was bone dry (yay!). Ordered a manual petcock valve anyway.
  • Carb bowl was full of fuel and float seemed to be working properly. Extracted and inspected main jet. Looked perfectly clean. Couldn't extract pilot jet but looked dirty. White specs were everywhere throughout. I'll have to take it off the bike for a better cleaning. I ordered a rebuild kit, too.
I don't have enough posts to link images, follow this url: imgur.com/a/gfhc6



I'll have to wait for the valve shims to come in before I can continue diagnosing. Would the incorrectly routed fuel tank lines or the voltage regulator ground cause the bike to die like it did?


Thanks!
 

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If you're lucky the gas cap isn't venting. Leave it open and take a ride. If it still dies, then you gotta go deeper, but if doesn't you've saved yourself a lot of wondering and figuring. Same thing happened to my old Honda. Very much what you described.

Good luck. And dumping some Seafoam in the gas (half a can) wouldn't hurt anything, and that stuff can work miracles.

Beyond that, stay patient. If it still give you problems the smart guys will help you figure it out. ;)
 
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............................. Would the incorrectly routed fuel tank lines or the voltage regulator ground cause the bike to die like it did?....
The regulator/rectifier has nothing to do with the ignition system, just the power and battery charging system. The spark ignition system power comes from separate coils in the stator and does not pass through the regulator/rectifier. Still, it is good that you fixed the regulator/rectifier ground.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Ok, so I put the new valve shims in and also put two heli-coils on the right side (yay for stripped threads! :) hahaha). But the bike still didn't start. Turns out, no spark from the plug.

I ran through all of the resistance tests and it looks like I need a new stator coil and cdi, so I'll order those.

Also, how in the heck am I supposed to read this cdi resistance table? For instance, going top to bottom, white to red should be 10 - 55 k-ohm, but going left to right white to red is infinite? WTH?! That doesn't make any sense. It doesn't matter which side the positive or negative is on, an ohm is an ohm, lol.

Still can't post pics, so follow this url for the table: i.imgur.com/wgnqlQV.jpg?1
 

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Black box checking usually involves checking inputs with both polarities. There can be 'circuitry' in there that can affect the resistance reading of A-B vs B-A.

For example, if there is a diode on the input, then it would read very high (near infinite) resistance one way, less in the other. If there is a transistor or diode in the midst of the circuitry, then that changes the resistance network, so resistances are different A-B vs B-A.

Does that make sense?

Tom
 
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Discussion Starter #10
ahh, I got it, that makes more sense now. I was imagining testing a simple resistor. Didn't think of how diodes or other elements could effect the reading. That makes total sense, now. Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Ok, so I just ordered a brand new exciter coil, diode and cdi but I'm still not getting the correct resistance readings. Dang. I have a digital multi-meter, and I read somewhere that I might need an analog meter for the diode and cdi. There's no way I just bought all defective parts. It HAS to be my multi-meter, no?

EDIT - ok, so it looks like the color on the stator wires that I received may not match the Clymer manual. Clymer says red / white should be 100 - 200 ohms. Mine is reading infinite, however, red / brown is reading 150. My new exciter coil has three white, one red and one brown lead.
 

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Ok, so I just ordered a brand new exciter coil, diode and cdi . . .
Do you mean IGNITION coil, vs. EXCITER coil? Or do you mean, STATOR?

The two exciter coils are integral to the stator, providing alternating current (not rectified) to the CDI ("igniter").

As GoMotor says above, the rectifier/voltage regulator has no influence on the ignition circuitry of a Generation 1 KLR650.
 

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Ok, so I just ordered a brand new exciter coil, diode and cdi but I'm still not getting the correct resistance readings. Dang. I have a digital multi-meter, and I read somewhere that I might need an analog meter for the diode and cdi. There's no way I just bought all defective parts. It HAS to be my multi-meter, no?

EDIT - ok, so it looks like the color on the stator wires that I received may not match the Clymer manual. Clymer says red / white should be 100 - 200 ohms. Mine is reading infinite, however, red / brown is reading 150. My new exciter coil has three white, one red and one brown lead.
On you new stator the three (should be large gauge) white wires are the stator windings and are equivalent to the OEM yellow wires. The red and brown wires are equivalent to the red and white wires on the OEM. Resistance values should be in the same range as the OEM.

You should not need to have an analog meter for the diode tests or for the CDI tests. The diodes should read infinite in one direction, open, or zero ohms, in the other. A digital meter may read differently than an analog and might be confusing. On an analog meter the needle will swing to full-scale for an infinite reading while a digital meter may just flash bars on the screen. The analog meter's needle will not move for an open while the digital may read a few ohms.

Just for giggles and grins I'll go do the resistance checks on an OEM CDI and report them here. I'll also do the coil and let you know what the readings are, though it sounds like your exciter coil is good.

Tom
 
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Heckfire, I'll do an ignition coil too, just in case there is a bit of a mix-up in terminology. I'll even do a pick-up coil.

"Oh, but this is exciting", Tom said testily.

Tom
 

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Resistance values should be in the same range as the OEM.

You should not need to have an analog meter for the diode tests or for the CDI tests. The diodes should read infinite in one direction, open, or zero ohms, in the other.
A digital meter may read differently than an analog and might be confusing.

On an analog meter the needle will swing to full-scale for an infinite reading while a digital meter may just flash bars on the screen. The analog meter's needle will not move for an open while the digital may read a few ohms.


Tom
Tom, I have found that an inexpensive analog/dial type voa meter is better when testing the Kawasaki CDI or TCBI circuitry than an inexpensive digital voa meter. I've tried to use a "higher quality" digital meter or two and they just confuse me.

I refer to full continuity on an analog meter as to the needle swinging fully down to "0", as the needle 'normally rests' at open or infinite reading.

To my limited understanding of electrical terminology, infinite ohm reading is the same as an open circuit. So, do I have my terminology backwards?
 
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How did I get that so backwards?

Tom
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Do you mean IGNITION coil, vs. EXCITER coil? Or do you mean, STATOR?
My mistake. I purchased a new stator but was testing the exciter coil as instructed in the Clymer manual. Tom Schmitz cleared up my confusion in his quote, below.

On you new stator the three (should be large gauge) white wires are the stator windings and are equivalent to the OEM yellow wires. The red and brown wires are equivalent to the red and white wires on the OEM. Resistance values should be in the same range as the OEM.

You should not need to have an analog meter for the diode tests or for the CDI tests. The diodes should read infinite in one direction, open, or zero ohms, in the other. A digital meter may read differently than an analog and might be confusing. On an analog meter the needle will swing to full-scale for an infinite reading while a digital meter may just flash bars on the screen. The analog meter's needle will not move for an open while the digital may read a few ohms.

Just for giggles and grins I'll go do the resistance checks on an OEM CDI and report them here. I'll also do the coil and let you know what the readings are, though it sounds like your exciter coil is good.

Tom
Thanks so much for your help. It looks like the replacement stator didn't use the same wire coloring scheme as the Clymer manual. I get the correct resistance between red/brown which is factory red/white. Perfect!

Tom, I have found that an inexpensive analog/dial type voa meter is better when testing the Kawasaki CDI or TCBI circuitry than an inexpensive digital voa meter. I've tried to use a "higher quality" digital meter or two and they just confuse me.

I refer to full continuity on an analog meter as to the needle swinging fully down to "0", as the needle 'normally rests' at open or infinite reading.

To my limited understanding of electrical terminology, infinite ohm reading is the same as an open circuit. So, do I have my terminology backwards?
Thanks, I wonder if my cruddy digital unit just isn't cut out for testing the cdi and diode. I bought brand new replacement parts and am still getting the wacky readings from my stock units.
 

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Heckfire, I'll do an ignition coil too, just in case there is a bit of a mix-up in terminology. I'll even do a pick-up coil.
Excessive coil resistance testing might not be necessary, only . . . you must have a Generation 1 stator available to test the exciter coils; Generation 2 stator has no stinkin' exciter coils.

Since you ride a Generation 2, Generation 1 stator presence wasn't obvious.
 

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Here's what I got on my CDI. The manual doesn't have values associated with the Red/Black wire, but I included them.


A 2002 ignition coil was tested. The ignition's secondary coil was tested to the end of the wire and also to the spark plug terminal. The coild was tested with a digital meter.
Secondary coil to Plug 9.4KΩ, to wire 4.6KΩ
Primary coil .5Ω

A 2006 stator was tested. The stator was tested with a digital meter.
Any yellow wire to any yellow wire, .8Ω

The exciter coils were tested with a digital meter.
140Ω

A 2006 pick-up coil was tested. The pick-up coil was tested with a digital meter.
115Ω

Tom
 
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