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Discussion Starter #1
Who has the authority on this forum to "kick a guy out" and "close a thread"?.
The process leaves little if any room for learning from mistakes/redemption.
I feel badly for the guy that got BANNED. where does he go from here...? To the "other" forum where he can badmouth this forum?
Lastly, why is it okay to use the F-bomb when referring to a kickstand that's an inch too long, but not okay to use it in intelligent but heated debate about serious topics?

Just asking.
 

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Who has the authority on this forum to "kick a guy out" and "close a thread"?.
The process leaves little if any room for learning from mistakes/redemption.
I feel badly for the guy that got BANNED. where does he go from here...? To the "other" forum where he can badmouth this forum?
Lastly, why is it okay to use the F-bomb when referring to a kickstand that's an inch too long, but not okay to use it in intelligent but heated debate about serious topics?

Just asking.
:meme:

Mods can do both. And **** means very different things depending on context. Like, arg, my ****ing kickstand is only insulting to the kickstand. **** you? That's the kind of talk that gets you banned.
 

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Masterlink, I was the moderator that banned Geomelon and closed the thread for reasons that should be obvious. We had a problem here a while ago concerning another thread that turned into a gun debate and resulted in hard feelings plus a few GOOD folks leaving the site (a moderator included). I had hoped the thread in question could proceed in a civil manner but that was not the case.

As far as the F-bomb is concerned, I do not like it. But when used in a personal attack it crosses the line, as in any other profanity directed personally.

You can discuss anything, argue, get mad, I don't care. Just keep it civil.

FYI - http://www.klrforum.com/showthread.php?t=1486
 

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I see your point, masterlink. I would imagine it was more the "spirit" of that post that resulted in a closed thread/ban, but there's really no difference between posting f**k and just spelling it out. We all know what's being said, so it's all the same to me. Plus, I think the term "insulting bastard" was thrown out there, so that ain't too cool.

While I understand wanting to retain a modicum of civility on the site, I would think the post could have just been deleted and he could have been sent an explanation via PM, or even an open dress-down in that thread, that posts/attacks like that will not be tolerated here and if he kept it up he would be banned. But, I suppose the moderators have to consider things I don't, so I respect that.

It seems controversial topics are off-limits here and that's cool if that's what everybody wants. On the other hand, if I'm hanging out with fellow riders, we don't just sit around and talk strictly KLR's and motorcycles, so it doesn't seem out of line to me to have an occasional off-topic debate here. I mean, the "Off Topic" forum is available on the site. If you want to stay KLR-specific, just ignore the Off Topic forum.

On the other hand, contentious subjects can be debated without resorting to name-calling and profanity. I avoid neither of those parameters when conversating on topics with people in person, but I wouldn't do it here.

There are some very intelligent and cool people on here and I like to hear what they think/say about non-motorcycle topics that affect us all. Hell, I seem to be the one who always starts them, but I had no idea that thread would veer off into a gun debate and I managed to pretty much stay out of it this time.

To my thinking, no specific thread is a gateway to the whole site, so if you don't like what's being discussed in a particular one, just ignore it. I always get a kick out of the people who proclaim "I'll have no further part in this conversation," but yet they're right back the next day in the thick of it all and obviously being offended by what other people have to say. I mean, come on. If it bothers you that much, stay away from it.

I hate to see a member potentially run off because of one ill-mannered post, though. This forum has a stated 10,436 members, of whom maybe 30 or so are actually active on the site.

From the teachings of Siddartha Guatama, who in my book was One Wise Dude and whose teachings I generally adhere to, except for the "don't use intoxicants" part.......

" Attempt to overcome crippling sentiments such as taking offense at the remarks of others."
 

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I see your point, masterlink. I would imagine it was more the "spirit" of that post that resulted in a closed thread/ban, but there's really no difference between posting f**k and just spelling it out. We all know what's being said, so it's all the same to me. Plus, I think the term "insulting bastard" was thrown out there, so that ain't too cool.

While I understand wanting to retain a modicum of civility on the site, I would think the post could have just been deleted and he could have been sent an explanation via PM, or even an open dress-down in that thread, that posts/attacks like that will not be tolerated here and if he kept it up he would be banned. But, I suppose the moderators have to consider things I don't, so I respect that.

It seems controversial topics are off-limits here and that's cool if that's what everybody wants. On the other hand, if I'm hanging out with fellow riders, we don't just sit around and talk strictly KLR's and motorcycles, so it doesn't seem out of line to me to have an occasional off-topic debate here. I mean, the "Off Topic" forum is available on the site. If you want to stay KLR-specific, just ignore the Off Topic forum.

On the other hand, contentious subjects can be debated without resorting to name-calling and profanity. I avoid neither of those parameters when conversating on topics with people in person, but I wouldn't do it here.

There are some very intelligent and cool people on here and I like to hear what they think/say about non-motorcycle topics that affect us all. Hell, I seem to be the one who always starts them, but I had no idea that thread would veer off into a gun debate and I managed to pretty much stay out of it this time.

To my thinking, no specific thread is a gateway to the whole site, so if you don't like what's being discussed in a particular one, just ignore it. I always get a kick out of the people who proclaim "I'll have no further part in this conversation," but yet they're right back the next day in the thick of it all and obviously being offended by what other people have to say. I mean, come on. If it bothers you that much, stay away from it.

I hate to see a member potentially run off because of one ill-mannered post, though. This forum has a stated 10,436 members, of whom maybe 30 or so are actually active on the site.

From the teachings of Siddartha Guatama, who in my book was One Wise Dude and whose teachings I generally adhere to, except for the "don't use intoxicants" part.......

" Attempt to overcome crippling sentiments such as taking offense at the remarks of others."
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If it’s in the off-topic forum, and you don’t want to hear it, don’t read it. If we are going to ban a person that violates the rules of civility, so be it. But why shut down the conversation, just because some don’t like it?
 

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This forum has a long-standing history of being wide open, allowing any and all topics to be discussed. Compare and contrast that to many forums where guns, religion, and politics are strictly prohibited.

Those who know me in meat-space know I'm a pretty straight shooter, so I'll not write with veiled third-person references.

That thread was going along quite well until post 52. At that point geolemon introduced the topic of using guns as defensive weapons. This was in response to masterlink's observation that such an attack might not have happened in a more rural area where folks might be armed. Prior to that the whole thread was about the NYC attack and the LEO's participation. In short, the thread got jacked into a hot topic by the very guy that later went ballistic when his belief system was challenged. Ironic.

At that point I thought "this ain't gonna end well". There was an agenda, there was button pushing, there was baiting, there was an undertone of ridicule.

That's all well and good and part of what we'd expect of any discussion of one of the dreaded three topics. That said, screaming profane insults at another member seems like a pretty egregious transgression to me; far worse than cursing at an inanimate object.

If I, in your presence, mention how pissed I am at my '****ing kickstand" you might think I'm ill mannered and crude. You'd be right.

If I got up in your face and screamed "**** YOU!" you might punch me in the nose. You'd be right.

I'm not in a position to ban anyone, but I stand behind the moderators and respect the job they have to do and the judgement calls they have to make.


Tom
 

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On another forum that I own (very low user numbers and such) for my favorite NFL team, I ended up creating a section called "The Debate Forum" which is described as having "Heated discussion ahead."

The "House Rules" are like this:

First, please understand that this is a privately owned and operated message board. That ultimately means that the "Free Speech" rights of the First Amendment DO NOT apply here. Legally, you are here as a guest of the owner, and as such, you are subject to the rules that owner decides to have on this board.

Second, understand that the admins/mods want to keep moderation to the necessary minimum. As such, we want people to be reasonably civil to one another so that we do not have to step in. We really want this board to moderate itself, and for members at least have at least a semblance of mutual respect toward one another. We understand that emotions can run high at times, and that not everyone is going to like each other, but we do not want discussions to degenerate into petty name calling and backstabbing.

Third, the admins/mods DO NOT like banning people, or even giving them temporary time outs for bad behavior, but we will if necessary. The goal is for us to be relatively lenient and not heavy-handed in moderating this board. Please help us reach that goal by being civil toward each other. Specific points:

- No personal threats or attacks on any other board member. "Personal attacks or threats" include discriminatory or derogatory statements directed specifically toward the person and not at the content of the post. Feel free to attack the MESSAGE/OPINION of the other member if you are so inclined, but leave personal attacks out of it. This includes derogatory comments toward the member or member's family, the member's lineage, parenting, racial background, religion, and sexual preference, among other items. A good general guideline is to not say anything here that you would hesitate to say to someone's face in real life.

- No posting of photoshopped or altered pics of members. This falls under the category of "personal attacks" as well.

- No porn. Also no graphic material, such as overly gross or disturbing images or video clips. If you really must share such things with another member, do so via PM.

- Profanity is allowed, but overuse of profanity is discouraged. You are a big boy/girl now, so you should be able to get your point across without resorting to excessive use of profanity. It is understood that there are times - especially during games - where emotions take over and you really want to blast off, but please try not to go overboard.

- This message board is open to all ages, therefore the maximum movie rating for any material posted is the equivalent of PG-13.

- Link spam and other forms of advertising are not welcome on this board.

- We encourage members to post news articles, especially related to the 49ers, but please do not post entire articles unless the article is a short one; for long articles, a shorter relevant quote is preferable. With all articles, please cite your source and provide a link. If the article is copied from an online newspaper, magazine, etc, you are also encouraged to include the byline showing the name of the author. That way, the author of the piece gets credit where credit is due.

- Promoting other football message boards is discouraged. Please do not recruit members from this board to join other boards, because we are trying to build up our membership on this site.

- Using this board to conspire to spam and/or "attack" another message board is not allowed and will not be tolerated. We all know about the official 49ers board, and we know that people who get banned there often come here. That is fine, but if you are holding a grudge towards the official 49ers board, DO NOT use this board to conspire against or attack them over there.

THESE RULES ALSO APPLY IN THE CHATBOX.

The admins/mods reserve the right to restrict or ban any member for violation of these message board rules, as the admins/mods find necessary.


Yeah, my little message board has a chatbox for real-time conversation.
 

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1) everyone copied my answer.

2) typing f**K is especially stupid because if you type **** it just blocks out the letters. **** **** ****. See?

3) see my original answer

:t1204: (I kid) :)
 

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But yeah, bottom line. Some rules get bent here. Many by me. But we talk to each other with respect. Cursing another member out is unacceptable in all circumstances. Especially in the open forum. Ain't proper.
 

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That thread could be re-awakened under a more specific subject, but new info on the original subject matter was dwindling down anyway and it seemed to have run its course.

I would have to agree that while there's really no point in the thinly-veiled **** words, there's a big difference between demonstrating frustration at some inanimate object and directing it toward a person in an insulting manner.

After reading some more responses on here and giving it some more thought, I have to agree that at least a temporary ban was in order. This is exactly why I could never be a moderator. They have to decide things like that in short order and I respect their willingness to take on that job.

If the ban is temporary, he'll either decide to return and abide by forum rules or he won't.
 

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But yeah, bottom line. Some rules get bent here. Many by me. But we talk to each other with respect. Cursing another member out is unacceptable in all circumstances. Especially in the open forum. Ain't proper.
+1

Some don't play well with others. I wonder if he would speak to someone in person the same way he did online. I'm guessing not.

I'm not going to second guess the mods here they all seem to be reasonable (unlike on that other KLR forum LOL). I would like to believe that there was an email exchange before the banning, that's the approach I would have used but it's not my call.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Please understand -I respect the folks who are moderators. I just didn't know if they stop threads or the "owner" of the site.....
LJ: good point about cursing your kickstand vs. Cursing a fellow rider on here.
I'm impressed by the level and variety of discussion on this forum; I think it's better than any I have been on.
Thanks for letting me know how the behind the scenes stuff works.
 

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Please understand -I respect the folks who are moderators. I just didn't know if they stop threads or the "owner" of the site.....
LJ: good point about cursing your kickstand vs. Cursing a fellow rider on here.
I'm impressed by the level and variety of discussion on this forum; I think it's better than any I have been on.
Thanks for letting me know how the behind the scenes stuff works.
I agree. The level of discourse and caring on this forum is amazing. We're lucky. That's why it's so dramatic when things get ugly. Some forums, that's par for the course. Not here. That's why I like it.

I will get in someone's face for a lot of things, but not because they have a different point of view. And the folks on here are, largely, smart, helpful, well read, experienced, and courteous.

I could never be a mod, either. I have an immense amount of respect for those that answer that call. It is a thankless job.

Which would be a good time to say:

THANKS MODS, YOU GUYS ARE FREAKING AWESOME! ;)

:wave2:
:mexican wave:
 

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I’ve been letting this thing shake out for a while before posting to see the feedback. And I appreciate it, good, or bad. As Strother Martin said in Cool Hand Luke “I don’t like this any more than you men”. As far as moderating this site goes, “It aint all that”. For the most part it takes care of itself due to the caliber of the members here, a few of whom left the other sites due to the heavy handedness found in some of them. I like it here because it is small. In real life I’d rather have just a few good friends than many acquaintances. But that’s just me and it applies here as well.

I certainly hope that this has not put our site in the category of “heavy handed”. I’d not paid much attention to the thread until as Tom pointed out in an earlier reply, “post 52”. At that point any mod could have shut it down, as we all know where it will most likely lead. And it did.

Did I act rashly? I hope not. I saw the problem and corrected it. Right then. Right there. I did not PM Geolemon before doing so. I did not discuss it with the other mods. I would agree if they did the same.

Once THAT line has been crossed you can never come back from it.

Cheers, enjoy your weekend and ride safe.
 

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I’ve been letting this thing shake out for a while before posting to see the feedback. And I appreciate it, good, or bad. As Strother Martin said in Cool Hand Luke “I don’t like this any more than you men”. As far as moderating this site goes, “It aint all that”. For the most part it takes care of itself due to the caliber of the members here, a few of whom left the other sites due to the heavy handedness found in some of them. I like it here because it is small. In real life I’d rather have just a few good friends than many acquaintances. But that’s just me and it applies here as well.

I certainly hope that this has not put our site in the category of “heavy handed”. I’d not paid much attention to the thread until as Tom pointed out in an earlier reply, “post 52”. At that point any mod could have shut it down, as we all know where it will most likely lead. And it did.

Did I act rashly? I hope not. I saw the problem and corrected it. Right then. Right there. I did not PM Geolemon before doing so. I did not discuss it with the other mods. I would agree if they did the same.

Once THAT line has been crossed you can never come back from it.

Cheers, enjoy your weekend and ride safe.
Cheers, brother. You handled it perfectly as far as I'm concerned. Problem fixed. Minimal drama. Back to campfire chatting and jokes (where the hell are you UK Trailer Guy?) ;)
 
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