[Belldriver]

I thought the Gen3 ignition was the same as the Gen2?
Just because the PC5/6 can alter timing doesn’t mean that is physically possible on the KLR.
Does the timing even go through the ECM on a Gen 3?
Just asking.
Thinking that optimal AFR and timing will add more than 5hp seems overly optimistic to me.

The Gen 3 ignition is part of the fuel unit. One device.
The advance curve is different than the Gen 2 as the Gen 3 can rely on a throttle positionn sensor.
While the '08 to '18 advances from 10° at 1300 rpm to 30° BTDC at 4000 rpm the 2022+ starts at °5 degrees at idle (meh) and goes up to 49°

We need an Ignitech unit.

 

[Six8five]

The Gen 3 ignition is part of the fuel unit. One device.
The advance curve is different than the Gen 2 as the Gen 3 can rely on a throttle positionn sensor.
While the '08 to '18 advances from 10° at 1300 rpm to 30° BTDC at 4000 rpm the 2022+ starts at °5 degrees at idle (meh) and goes up to 49°

We need an Ignitech unit.

Thanks!

 

[PeteK]

Since the Gen3 uses TPS input, that should make programming the timing curve more useful and efficient.

5 degrees at idle should also help starting. Before anyone starts messing with timing advance, keep in mind that more advance is not necessarily better. The engine only needs "enough." Too much advance wastes power too.

 

[pdwestman]

WOW, what an explosion of postings!

And some of you think the KLR carburetors are too complicated. LOL

 

[MN Willie]

WOW, what an explosion of postings!

And some of you think the KLR carburetors are too complicated. LOL

Nope! Some of us don't have one!

Learning!

Willie

 

[PeteK]

Thinking a little more about the control of timing, I suppose that setting the timing for starting RPM to zero degrees, or slightly after TDC, would allow Kawasaki (or us) to eliminate the KACR. Yes, there's still 9.5 compression to deal with, but if the spark doesn't occur until TDC or later, that's less resistance to cranking too.

Some engines in cars I'm familiar with used idle timing with vacuum hose disconnected "after" TDC, and relied on the vacuum of the engine after it started to pull the timing to BTDC, which resulted in timing 5 degrees ATDC during cranking. I haven't delved far enough down into the code in modern FI systems to know if current engines retard timing that far during starting. Virtually everyone, except the engineers responsible for complying with emissions regulations, only considers timing after the engine is running.

Just some speculation.

 

[DrewNJ]

WOW, what an explosion of postings!

And some of you think the KLR carburetors are too complicated. LOL

 

[SirMarksAllot]

View attachment 40332

I think that’s a different carb she’s referring to, because everyone knows EFIs won’t survive an EMP🤣

 

[Timlang60]

My gravity fuel pump has never failed and left me stranded...

View attachment 40332

 

[PeteK]

I think that’s a different carb she’s referring to, because everyone knows EFIs won’t survive an EMP🤣

If you plan to use your KLR to survive the Zombie Apocalypse or a nuclear war, then you MUST have a carb!

 

[MN Willie]

My gravity fuel pump has never failed and left me stranded...

Good thing the Gas Stations have a "Gravity Pump" too!

I guess this might help....

EMP Shield Micro – EMP & Lightning Protection for Vehicles (DC-12V-MICRO)

For the "Road Warrior" in the Crowd!

Willie

 

[DrewNJ]

The Gen 3 ignition is part of the fuel unit. One device.
The advance curve is different than the Gen 2 as the Gen 3 can rely on a throttle positionn sensor.
While the '08 to '18 advances from 10° at 1300 rpm to 30° BTDC at 4000 rpm the 2022+ starts at °5 degrees at idle (meh) and goes up to 49°

We need an Ignitech unit.

Your dead on with those numbers, thank you. Monitoring advance during a short ride today with Torque and it's exactly 5 degrees at idle. I was seeing right at 47.5 at the highest. This was at light throttle 60mph cruise. Full throttle 27 degrees.
Lots of high 20's and we'll into the 30's mixed riding most of the time.
What was kind of interesting is that cold start I initially saw 10 degrees of advance at idle, for about 30 seconds before dropping back to 5.

If I get some time and the weather cooperates, maybe I'll data log it, just for fun.

 

[DrewNJ]

My gravity fuel pump has never failed and left me stranded...

So then when are you going full kick start and ditching a battery completely? Might as well go all out! 😁

 

[SirMarksAllot]

So then when are you going full kick start and ditching a battery completely? Might as well go all out! 😁

We will have to go to Tom’s house for a tutorial on that mod 🤣

 

[Timlang60]

Youd need

So then when are you going full kick start and ditching a battery completely? Might as well go all out! 😁

You'd need a strong right leg, because you'd have to drop it into gear and kick-roll the motor over all your way to your destination. A Gen 2 won't start without a battery, the stator has no dedicated starting coils (which is where it gets its increased generating wattage over a Gen 1).

 

[pdwestman]

A Gen 2 won't start without a battery, the stator has no dedicated starting coils (which is where it gets its increased generating wattage over a Gen 1).

I'll dis-agree with that statement.
A riding buddies 2012 Gen 2 battery FAILED to even faintly glimmer the neutral light, much less make the starter relay click.
We were basically at the top of the mountain. So I got to test if a Gen 2 KLR650 will bump start with a totally dead / internally disconnected / failed battery.

I can confirm that a Gen 2 can be bump-started if the engine turns over FAST Enough to Generate enough current to power the lights & the ignition. Just Don't Let the engine return to idle speed, or it will die. Then you may have to TOW it on flat land or push it back up a long enough/steep enough hill to restart it.

Turn the idle speed knob up to about 1800-2000 rpm. Should then stay running.

ps, (Might work on the Gen 3's also. But there is No Idle speed knob to be Turned UP. And No OEM tach to watch!)

 

[Timlang60]

So, technically incorrect, but practically correct. Still gonna need a stronger right leg than I've got to spin it fast enough with a kick starter

 

[SirMarksAllot]

I'll dis-agree with that statement.
A riding buddies 2012 Gen 2 battery FAILED to even faintly glimmer the neutral light, much less make the starter relay click.
We were basically at the top of the mountain. So I got to test if a Gen 2 KLR650 will bump start with a totally dead / internally disconnected / failed battery.

I can confirm that a Gen 2 can be bump-started if the engine turns over FAST Enough to Generate enough current to power the lights & the ignition. Just Don't Let the engine return to idle speed, or it will die. Then you may have to TOW it on flat land or push it back up a long enough/steep enough hill to restart it.

Turn the idle speed knob up to about 1800-2000 rpm. Should then stay running.

ps, (Might work on the Gen 3's also. But there is No Idle speed knob to be Turned UP. And No OEM tach to watch!)

Great to hear that. I keep these in the saddle bags on long trips

 

[DrewNJ]

So, technically incorrect, but practically correct. Still gonna need a stronger right leg than I've got to spin it fast enough with a kick starter

That sounds like quitter talk! Next you'll be trading your carb for fuel injection....

 

[Timlang60]

Nah, I'm pretty happy with things being as 'non-sudden failure' prone as possible. When I was younger, I wanted cutting edge everything on my vehicles. Now I just want simple, repairable, and reliable. I have achieved fogey status, and I'm not going back!