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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I've been building a bare-bones harness for the '09. It has been stripped of unnecessary stuff and designed to integrate with the Vapor dash and HID headlights. That project has been on the back burner while I worked on the kick start stuff.

Now it looks like I'll put a Gen 1 ignition in the '09, so the bare bones harness will be modified to accommodate that stuff.

With thanks to Damocles for his help on the Gen 1 vs Gen 2 ignition differences, I think I have a plan. This still needs to be traced out at least two more times, but the scope of the project is set.

I'm going to pay a visit to Bothwell Automotive and see if they can balance a Gen 2 Rotor. I'll give it one shot. If they can I'll modify the Gen 2 rotor for use with the Gen 1 ignition. If not, I'll use the Gen 1 rotor.

Here's my first crack at the modified wiring. Purple goes away, red is added.


For competeness, this is the wiring diagram for all the new Vapor, HID, Turn/Emerg, etc that the harness interfaces with.
 

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Only cursory examination of truly excellent wiring diagrams, but . . . don't see ENGINE STOP SWITCH logic . . .

Both IGNITION SWITCH and ENGINE STOP SWITCH use GROUNDING of exciter coil lead to CDI as kill mechanism on Generation 1s (vs. opening of + 12 VDC lead to igniter on Generation 2s).

So, ignition switch (and engine stop switch, if any) might bear watching, with trans-generational ignition conversion.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
It is very hard to see on the schematic unless you open the file in a new tab and zoom in.

I've enlarged the section; see if it looks logical to you. The kill switch will work 'backwards', the 'Off' position will be 'Run'. The ignition switch looked OK as-is.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Eh, not so fast, sport.

The ignition switch might be a problem and the starter button is a problem.

This will require pondering.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Damocles,

The Gen 2 ignition switch performs the same base functions as the Gen 1 switch. That is, it connects the white 20A B+ to the switched power, brown, when "On" and grounds the igniter when "Off". It does not have the "Park" position and doesn't control the headlight power, etc., but that seems to be no matter. I think it will work as-is.

The starter switch on the Gen 2 takes it's power from the kill switch on the Gen 2. The kill switch is a SPST. The kill switch on the Gen 1 is a DPST and serves to ground the igniter and provide power to the starter switch. In order to avoid diodes, relays, and magic dust I think I need to leave it alone. Thus, I will not have a kill switch because, as you pointed out, the kill switch on the Gen 2 interrupts power to the coil rather than grounding the igniter.

What do you think the effect and ramifications of using the Gen 2 kill switch would be if it were used to interrupt power to the Gen 1 coil?

I can live without a kill switch, but I wonder if I need to lock its position so that it can't be moved, or perhaps go into it and hardwire its function.

There's an extra right-side swtich block around here that I'm going to dissect and see how the internal wiring is accomplished. Might be I could still make it work...
 

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Didn't know the Generation 2 ignition switch grounds the igniter when OFF; opening the circuit to the coil primary windings was its function, I thought.

What do you think the effect and ramifications of using the Gen 2 kill switch would be if it were used to interrupt power to the Gen 1 coil?
My concept (unverified at this moment) is: The Generation 1 ignition coil is never physically "disconnected" from the stator exciter coils through the CDI, which discharges its capacitor from pickup coil pulse; however, the CDI power lead is grounded when the kill switch is in the OFF position (if there IS a kill switch) or the ignition switch is in the OFF position (again, Generation 1 OEM configuration).

You may be able to, "re-purpose" the kill switch to interrupt the circuitry between the CDI and the ignition coil primary windings, but keep in mind you're dealing with voltage determining spark intensity; you'll need a solid, low-resistance connection when the kill switch is in the RUN position.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Didn't know the Generation 2 ignition switch grounds the igniter when OFF; opening the circuit to the coil primary windings was its function, I thought....
We have to qualify my statement with "That's the way I'm reading it", which could be wrong.

In the "Off" position the Gen 2 ignition switch connects the B/W from the igniter to chassis ground, the B/Y ground bus wire. Of course, we don't know the functions of the various igniter pins because Denso and KHI hold these close to the vest, but I take that as "grounding the igniter".

I cannot find the right side switch block anywhere in the Shed of Horrors, which is why it is called the Shed of Horrors. I am leaning towards not having a kill switch.

Obviously, I must study this much more...
 

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A Western Power Sports #57-5012 kill button to fit Yamaha YZ dirt bikes is a nice momentary button for kill or horn. It has about 18-20 inches of 2 wire leads on it.
 

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The OEM kill switch, of course, is more-than-momentary . . . yet; truth be told, I have never been in a situation where a kill switch was of critical importance, myself (doesn't mean they don't occur).

Jimmie Lynch, of the internationally-famous Death Dodgers auto thrill show, lectured: When an automobile is upset/overturned with the engine running, a better idea than immediately shutting the motor off, is to let it run, preventing combustible mixture from contact with a hot exhaust manifold, creating a fire (from the days when automobiles had carburetors).

He also said, the BEST tires should go on the REAR wheels, because . . . the driver had some control over a front-tire blowout from the steering wheel; none for the rear tires . . .

Guy had some credibility; had been in LOTS of crashes, for fun and profit! :)

Jimmie Lynch even took Mr. Wiffle, of, "Don't squeeze the Charmin" fame, for a ride:


I digress. Moderators, delete any or all contamination of the website with clear conscience, if you must! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The Gen 1 and Gen 2 coils are different, that we know.

The Gen 2 coil has no marking as to '+' or '-'. The Gen 2 does.

Both coils have a wide tab and a skinny tab. On the Gen 2 the skinny tab is connected to the black wire that goes to the igniter.

Now, it seems obvious and a dumb question, but I have to check.

In the Gen 1 harness is the skinny connector connected to the black wire that goes to the CDI? In other words, is the '-' side of the coil connected to the CDI?

I should think they would be wired the same buuut....
 

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Inconvenient to examine my Generation 1, but . . . going out on a limb, I think possibly (not unlike with a non-directional tire), the polarity of the primary ignition coil leads may be interchangeable, with the corresponding ignition system.

The CDI discharges a capacitor across the primary windings when firing the plug; primary and secondary windings are connected to the CDI; no rectifier obvious between CDI and ignition coil; thus . . . don't think polarity involved. If so, don't see damage possible if wires are reversed; if coil won't fire one way, re-connect with reversed polarity and see what happens!

(I know; I know: Easy for ME to say! :) )

One side of the coil primary winding goes to ground; the other to the CDI (and to one side of the secondary coil winding). Don't think it matters, which is which, but don't know this for a fact.

With the ignition coil installed and connected, you might look at the manual test procedure to see if you might be in the ballpark:

Clymer, Generation 1, says: Primary: 0.15-0.21 ohms; Secondary: (between spark plug lead and BLACK/YELLOW wire terminal) 3.8-5.8 K ohms.

Good luck!
 

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Damocles, that video was great!
Glad you enjoyed it, shinyribs!

Regrets to any members if my use of the kill switch consideration to justify the Jimmie Lynch "off-topic" clip offends.

I actually met Jimmie Lynch, shook his hand, just before he gave the safety lecture I referenced.

Now, back to the regularly-scheduled kick-start program! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks Damocles. I figured that to be the case, but my understanding is flimsy enough to seek reassurance.
 

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The Gen 1 and Gen 2 coils are different, that we know.

The Gen 2 coil has no marking as to '+' or '-'. The Gen 2 does.

Both coils have a wide tab and a skinny tab. On the Gen 2 the skinny tab is connected to the black wire that goes to the igniter.

Now, it seems obvious and a dumb question, but I have to check.

In the Gen 1 harness is the skinny connector connected to the black wire that goes to the CDI? In other words, is the '-' side of the coil connected to the CDI?

I should think they would be wired the same buuut....
Tom, Which has What?

On a Gen 1 ignition coil the inward skinny tab is the Black/Yellow Ground terminal. Primary contact tabs face towards the rear of the bike.

I do believe polarity does make some difference on both systems. Not sure how much difference.
 

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I do believe polarity does make some difference on both systems. Not sure how much difference.
Since Generation 2 coil primary is saturated with 12 VDC, might make a difference, depending upon how the current is broken to produce a spark.

Can't think of why a Generation 1's ignition coil polarity would make a difference, unless the terminals are not "floating," not insulated from the case conductivity. They may not be; the case and ground terminal may be common.
 

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Back in the day when I worked on points/coil ignitions on cars it was important to have the coil polarity correct. If it wasn't the spark would jump FROM ground TO the center electrode on the sparkplug as well as creating a weaker and intermittent spark and rough running engine. I don't know for sure if this applies to the KLRs but it might....
There was a way to check the spark polarity, I'm going to see if I can find it in one of my old manuals.

JJ
 

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The TCBI on the Gen2 is very similar to a 'breaker points' system. With-out the 'Mechanical' breaker points.

The CDI systems always leave me 'scratching my head'. And CDI has been in-use almost 50 years!
 

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You Guys will love this!
1)Remove the spark plug lead and hold it about 1/2" or less away from the spark plug. The spark needs to jump from the lead to the plug which is still screwed into the head.
2)WEARING A HEAVY GLOVE hold a sharpened pencil between the lead and sparkplug so the carbon pencil point is in the path of the spark.
You will be able to SEE which direction the spark is coming from, the lead or the plug.
Correct is from the lead to the pencil point then to the sparkplug. Incorrect is from the spark plug to the pencil point to the lead.
I kid you not, there is even a diagram. I wish I could post it for you all!
In the "correct polarity" diagram the spark from the lead to the pencil point is shown solid and strong, then from the pencil point to the plug as weaker and dispersed.
In the "incorrect polarity" diagram the spark from the plug to the pencil point is shown as solid and strong and from the pencil point to the lead as weak and dispersed.
Though procedure is for a points ign system I don't see why the spark polarity test wouldn't work on any ignition type.
JJ
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Yeah, that's the way we used to do it when setting up the ignition on British four-bangers. It looks good in the diagram, sort of the like the drawings in the back of Boy's Life that showed you how well the Easy Off Pimple Popper worked, but in real life it's hard to see the flare.
 
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