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Discussion Starter #1
Some of you might know my situation, for the ones who don't I have a 07 klr and I replaced the doohickey with a torsion spring made by studebaker.
I since have been made aware of the situation between eaglemike and studebaker, I still have a studebaker doohickey and spring in my bike is it a good product ? According to some it is not heat treated and will fail ! I am not asking anyone to praise studebaker I just want to know if I need to tear this thing apart again and buy a doohickey from eaglemike. :18:
 

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Sorry...If it were mine....I'd be going in!

Eagle Mike has an extremely good repretation for making the finest of products and the other well maybe not...but in the end it is your bike and your choice...yes I know it burns..but what is better..? Riding happily down the road or constantly wondering if I made the right choice? OR worse...something happening to your engine if you decide not to go back in and it costing you much more due to some internal damage?

Where did you purchase this thing from? Maybe they would do the upright thing and allow you to return it knowing that you hadn't or wouldn't have purchased it knowing that it was actually a knock off. Good customer relations goes a long way as well as poor customer relations! IMHO After all it isn't a thing that wouldn't matter if it did fail like a side bag or something ...this is an internal engine component!

To each their own ...but I would be going back in...sorry!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I am not in any way arguing the fact that eaglemike does not make a superior product. Believe me I wish I had one in my bike now. haha I want to know if anyone has had a studebaker doohickey or torsion spring fail.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I would suggest then you have answered your own question then....you are happy with what you have...ride on!! No worries....
HAHA Yeah thank's willy's. I have since requested ISO Certification's on these part's from Studebaker both the doohickey and the torsional spring.
I will post that info as soon as I have it. I have been researching alot of other discussion's about this doohickey issue and the repackaging and sloppy tolerances, heat treating , ect. I have talked to klr650.com. I think the writing is on the wall someone screwed someone and I really could care less all I want to know is if there are any documented failures with the studebaker doohickey's. I will post the document's from klr650.com and studebaker.
 

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I'm wondering...??? Are you trying to prove a point or just make yourself happy with not having to deal with redoing your DOO...?

I haven't heard of anyone's Doo actually breaking, but have heard of the lousey fit of their DOO on the shaft and incorrect spring tensions in the straight springs...nothing on the newly copied torsion spring yet..I guess time will be the judge..?

I will be shocked if you get what you have asked for. But it will be interesting to see what comes of this. Good luck..
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I am doing this because I bought something in good faith and installed it in my engine. Later on a post here I was informed that my doohickey problem might not be resolved. That definately got my attention as I am sure it would you also. I in fact just got the documentation that I was asking for and will post it first thing tomorrow morning it is on my blackberry and I cannot transfer from my corporate acct.
For the record this is not about eaglemike and his past business issues with klr650.com this is about the studebaker doohickey to whether it is a quality product or not. I intend to investigate this issue before I just tear my engine apart again and I am willing to share my finding's.
 

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The actual lever/doo's produced by the new guy for klr650.com/studebaker....... have a short history.

The lever you bought might be great, or might not. How well does it fit the shaft? How hard is it? (I actually know the answer to this one) I'm aware of their allegations about ISO certification, etc. As I posted elsewhere, I'm a former QC manager is the aerospace business, as well as a manufacturing engineer on several aerospace programes. The guys selling the parts don't really know what ISO certification means or doesn't mean, it's a buzz phrase. It can mean something, or nothing. Once you do the (mostly) paperwork to get ISO cerified, you might or might not have to keep all the hoops spinning. I have hundreds of springs produced by an ISO house that cannot be used.

If you were close, I'd be glad to measure your lever and tell you if it's good.

all the best,
Mike
 

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I am not in any way arguing the fact that eaglemike does not make a superior product. Believe me I wish I had one in my bike now. haha I want to know if anyone has had a studebaker doohickey or torsion spring fail.
It will take some time to find out. They're only a month old. Mike's stuff has been out for 6 or 7 years, I think. No Eagle lever failures reported yet. In 6 or 7 years, you'll have some data on the other manufacturer.

My guess; it's probably strong enough to never break, but I'll bet it doesn't fit as snugly, and minimizing the 'rattling around' has to be a good thing for the balancer system and sprockets, and the rubber that we find in our oil screens from those sprockets.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
The actual lever/doo's produced by the new guy for klr650.com/studebaker....... have a short history.

The lever you bought might be great, or might not. How well does it fit the shaft? How hard is it? (I actually know the answer to this one) I'm aware of their allegations about ISO certification, etc. As I posted elsewhere, I'm a former QC manager is the aerospace business, as well as a manufacturing engineer on several aerospace programes. The guys selling the parts don't really know what ISO certification means or doesn't mean, it's a buzz phrase. It can mean something, or nothing. Once you do the (mostly) paperwork to get ISO cerified, you might or might not have to keep all the hoops spinning. I have hundreds of springs produced by an ISO house that cannot be used.

If you were close, I'd be glad to measure your lever and tell you if it's good.

all the best,
Mike
Thank you very much for your honesty and patience. I now have a real big picture about this whole thing and I hope I now am not looked down upon. I also hope I have not put you in a place you did not want to go I did alot of research and never did come up with even close to this information that was shared tonite Thank You again Respectfully Motorheads5
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Anyone wanting a copy of the e-mail sent to me from klr650.com pm me your E-Mail add. and I will be glad to forward it to you. It has the ISO Certificate and heat treating cert's I cannot get it to post because of file size. Can any of you help me with this ?
 

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I went to the studebaker site and looked at the advertised spec's. Ni big deal The biggest difference I an see right now is their copy is H1150 heat treat, mine is H900. Here is a link to one page showing the mechanical properties of the 17-4 conditions. http://www.beststainless.com/alloys/17-4.html You can see the heat treat condition I use is significantly stronger than H1150. The H900 condition is more difficult to machine, harder on cutters. I want to supply the best part I can.

Here is a link to the company that does my heat treating. I remember them being in business a long time ago. I audited them when I worked for General Dynamics. I also worked with them when I was a program manager/manufacturing engineer back in the 1980's and 1990's. One of these programs used a proprietary titanium alloy, called alloy "C" on the Advanced Tactical Fighter Program, now the F-22. Here is a link to a page showing some of their approvals. This is pretty impressive if you know what it means, and what one puts up with at this level. http://www.certifiedmetalcraft.com/clients.htm

I purchase the meterial from Fry Steel or Jorgensen Steel. Both of these companies carry ISO certification.

You see, I know what all these certifications mean. As I said earlier, I have a couple of faxes from the 650.com people when I found out they were copying my stuff. From the language, they didn't understand what this stuff means. I can guarantee you 100 percent klr650.com/studebaker/mashonline (or whatever name you want to use) - they are not ISO certified. Period.

When I started making these parts years ago, I set up the process so that I could feel confident the parts are good. I make the parts, I support the installation, and I could do the replacement process blindfolded if I didn't have to be sure a thrust washer didn't get dropped. I can guarantee you there is no way you can call the other guys and talk to the guy that makes the parts.

Do you want to see the pictures of the wrenches they supplied to customers? They painted them the same color as mine. When people had trouble with the wrenches, they called me as they knew I was suppying the lever/doo to them at that time. I warranteed/replaced the non-functional junk stuff with my wrenches. The customer was also disappointed and frustrated when they had to fight the tools they paid good money for.

Posting up spec's doesn't mean much when most of what they do is copy other people's work. A lot of their stuff IS made in China.

all the best,
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Mike this is a dead horse and I personally am ready to put it to rest, I am going to figure out how to post what I have and that will be that, I am also going to run the studebaker product that I have in my bike. And I am willing to share the history with anyone after all it look's like I am the only one that has one. Mike I will forward you that e-mail in the morning that I got from klr650.com it's mashonline something.
Mike answer me this if you own the right's to this part then why in the hell do you go through all this crap and just call your laywer ? something is not adding up here
Respectfully Motorheads5
 

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I've stated facts, That's all. :) There is nothing to add up. A few people have asked me to make public some facts about the process I use, and the history of my parts. I have considered litigation. It's still under consideration.

I know some people are really good at marketing, and sometimes skewing things. All I know how to do is state facts.

OTOH, I don't understand why you are so determined to post data you've been provided. You don't have to justify anything. :) I know nuance can be hard to express and capture on the internet. Please know I'm not attacking you or challenging you (a retail customer of theirs) in any way. :)

all the best,
Mike
 

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I will be interested in hearing your long term findings...that is if they are long term findings and not a short term problem....then what?.....You will ask yourself...was it really worth all of this...when I could have just gone back in for the price of a DOO and sidestepped the cost of the repairs you might have in the future...?
Yes I can see your point to an extent, but not on an internal engine part...but that is where we differ I guess..If I knew that there was a product out there that has a zero failure rate from conception and I could use it and forget about it..then I would be using it no matter what...but to each their own and good luck to you.
But I also see no reason to harp on this issue except to try and get others to follow your own way of thinking...or for what..?
I'm sorry but to me it sounds like you have other motives..what I'm not sure...but that is how it sounds..?
If you don't that is great...but...


As for legal action..is it worth it...they only need to change one aspect of the product and it is no longer an exact copy...so the law states...total BS!! Been there done that! This is why companies have huge secrecy with regards to new products and R/D developments....otherwise they had might as well just give everyone their ideas before they make them.

Nuff said...beating the dead horse just one more time I guess....sorry.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Hey Craig,
Attached is the doohickey info that I found.


Page 1 is certificate of compliance from the spring company stating the certifications relating to the coil and torsion springs. Also note the ISO 9001/2000 and Mil-Spec certifications.


Page 2 is the comparison between the Eagle doohickey and the current Studebaker doohickey.


Page 3 is kind of hard to read but this is the doohickey material spec sheet. If you need any clarification on this, please let me know. This came in on a fax therefore making it a little tough to read.


The machinist that makes the Doohickeys is an aerospace machinist for Boeing that also makes motorcycle components on the side. In fact, while I was on the phone with him, he was machining pieces for a 737 as we spoke. He also makes the brake caliper relocation bracket for the new '08-'09 oversize brake rotor kit that we sell online as well.


As far as the spec sheets go for the doohickey, they kind of speak for themselves. We pride ourselves in carrying the best available products for the KLR650 and will continue to do so until something better comes along. We have always been very pleased with Studebaker and their products. In fact, Studebaker makes OEM products for a lot of the major manufacturers including Polaris, Honda and probably many others. Studebaker also backs their doohickeys under warranty and to date, they have never had one issue concerning the doohickey, ever.


Again, thank you Craig for making us aware of what is happening in the chat world. We don't always have the time to sit and respond to every comment that is out there. We truly appreciate the loyalty of our customer base. In turn, this allows us to provide a service that is superior to all others.


In closing, if anyone has any questions concerning this issue, tell them to please feel free to contact us personally. These type of matters are our number one priority.


Thank you again and we hope to hear from you again in the near future,
Brady
KLR650.com
[email protected]
1-888-297-6686
 
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