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Discussion Starter #1
Hi Everyone,

Need HEEEELLLPPP on my trip to the end of the world...stranded in Seattle :/

Apologies ahead of time as I am sure this post is on the forum in some form or fashion, but of course my issue is unique ;) and also sorry for writing such an essay.

Start of Issues:
While riding, the bike died all of a sudden without any sputtering or anything. Naturally, sounds electrical. So long story short, after testing the spark plug and realizing that it wasn't getting a spark, i started to test all of the electrical nodes in the ignition system with the multimeter. Eventually found a spliced wire coming from the stator (got caught in my chain / sprocket?) and then I soldered it together and spark returned. Got the bike started and then the new issue started...

Current issue...
After riding a few miles after fixing above issue, the engine started to sputter in low RPMs, so I would play with the clutch, get the rpm's up and then the bike would run fine. I rode on the freeway for about 60+ miles to get to a friends house. When I got off the freeway, the RPMs dropped and the bike immediately shut off. Once I came to a stop, I put the bike in neutral and started it back up, it died again when i tried to give it gas, so i kept the RPM's high by using the clutch and feathering throttle during the 5 or so city miles to my friends. Last mile or so, bike seemed to be working fine without any sputtering or anything in lower RPMs, weirdly inconsistent.

I then let the bike sit for a couple days as I was busy in the city. I went to start the bike again and give it a test ride. First .5 mile, bike seemed fine, then the sputtering in lower RPMs in gear 1 &2 started and I had to nurse it back home by playing with clutch, been working on it ever since.

What i've done:
- Rechecked all ignition electronics and everything looks good - no pinched wires, nothing grounding, etc.
- Inspect all fuel lines and vents for leakages - none found, good gas in fuel lines and float bowl
- Took petcock apart - nothing of warning in there, all filters in tact, gaskets in good condition, valve clear, etc.
- Inspected the throttle cables - in good order
- Took carb out and cleaned all jets, float bowl, etc. - looking like new and everything is clean or undamaged including air cutoff valve and slide diaphragm
- Thinking electrical issue again, replaced the spark plug and tested - good spark and electrical flow resulted
- Checked the choke/enricher play - appears to be opening and closing as it should
- Air filter - was extremely dirty (6k miles on it on this trip so far with 35% dirt) so replaced with brand new one
- Checked fuel tank cap - Appears fine but What does it mean when it is hissing?

Tried to start the bike again and it ignited just fine with choke engaged, let it warm up for a couple minutes, disengaged choke, then it idled fine for a couple minutes so I went to give it gas in neutral. Once I gave it gas, it sputtered and died quickly. Then was curious to see what the spark plug was doing (due to above issue) and it was covered in black soot (carb fouled) Why would it be like that after one start of the bike? Clymer says because it's running rich, so I leaned out using the Pilot Mixture Screw.

Started bike again and then it died again when giving gas...

Now, I am at my whits end...Anyone have any idea what is going on?

Cheers and thank you!!

Lars
 

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Ugh?

The gurus will be awake soon.......
You have done what I would have.
Do all that testing and changing out some basics,
then come to this site. lol

It's either starving intermittently due to a possible vacuum leak,
or an electrical booger in the system. My hoses starting deteriorating
quite rapidly after purchase of my '09 new. Within 5 years all rubber
had been replaced.

Hope ya get it running happy mega-soon,
CheapMark
 

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You've said diaphragm is o.k.; is it SEALED properly? In its groove around the perimeter?

Symptoms suggest diaphragm air leak; however, you've certified a sound diaphragm.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks!! Yeah, I am just getting up and back into it. Hoses looked fine yesterday but will recheck more thoroughly today and let you know.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Damocles - I believe so but will verify this morning, Also thinking that the spring seat might be covering one of the holes. First order of business as far as the carb goes. Then, going to take apart fuel tank cap, then recheck the air intake tube and finally play with lean and rich mixtures, draining gas each time. Not sure if draining the gas each time will help but just want to start from scratch
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Hey guys, quick update. I have tried everything i mentioned I would ...

1. Slide diaphragm properly seated
2. Spring seat not covering holes
3. Gas cap vents clear - tore apart and sprayed with compressed air
4. Air intake tube is undamaged and not leaking
5. Air filter - rechecked and installed properly and is clean
6. Choke cable - working and seated properly
7. Stator cable (from previous electrical issue) in working order
8. Testing different richness during ignition with both choke on and off
a. Tested pilot screw at 1.25 turns - no distinguishable foul of spark plug
b. Tested pilot screw at 1.75 turns - spark plug then oil fouled
9. Just drained the float bowl and fuel line from petcock - about 2 oz. of fuel in there, is that too much? Is it flooding?

Each time i am trying to start the bike, it feels like the problem is getting worse, not better. Harder to start, symptoms on the spark plug are changing. Do I need to get into the top end at this point and do a compression test? Do I need to check the valves?

What else could be going on with this thing?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
HELP!! - Mechanically Inclined Individual Needed ASAP Seattle

Hey Everyone,

Having troubles with my bike starting and not responding via throttle, and have gone through everything. See description below for details on progress..
.

Start of Issues:
While riding, the bike died all of a sudden without any sputtering or anything. Naturally, sounds electrical. So long story short, after testing the spark plug and realizing that it wasn't getting a spark, i started to test all of the electrical nodes in the ignition system with the multimeter. Eventually found a spliced wire coming from the stator (got caught in my chain / sprocket?) and then I soldered it together and spark returned. Got the bike started and then the new issue started...

Current issue...
After riding a few miles after fixing above issue, the engine started to sputter in low RPMs, so I would play with the clutch, get the rpm's up and then the bike would run fine. I rode on the freeway for about 60+ miles to get to a friends house. When I got off the freeway, the RPMs dropped and the bike immediately shut off. Once I came to a stop, I put the bike in neutral and started it back up, it died again when i tried to give it gas, so i kept the RPM's high by using the clutch and feathering throttle during the 5 or so city miles to my friends. Last mile or so, bike seemed to be working fine without any sputtering or anything in lower RPMs, weirdly inconsistent.

I then let the bike sit for a couple days as I was busy in the city. I went to start the bike again and give it a test ride. First .5 mile, bike seemed fine, then the sputtering in lower RPMs in gear 1 &2 started and I had to nurse it back home by playing with clutch, been working on it ever since.

What i've done:
- Rechecked all ignition electronics and everything looks good - no pinched wires, nothing grounding, etc.
- Inspect all fuel lines and vents for leakages - none found, good gas in fuel lines and float bowl
- Took petcock apart - nothing of warning in there, all filters in tact, gaskets in good condition, valve clear, etc.
- Inspected the throttle cables - in good order
- Took carb out and cleaned all jets, float bowl, etc. - looking like new and everything is clean or undamaged including air cutoff valve and slide diaphragm
- Thinking electrical issue again, replaced the spark plug and tested - good spark and electrical flow resulted
- Checked the choke/enricher play - appears to be opening and closing as it should
- Air filter - was extremely dirty (6k miles on it on this trip so far with 35% dirt) so replaced with brand new one
- Checked fuel tank cap - Appears fine but What does it mean when it is hissing?

Tried to start the bike again and it ignited just fine with choke engaged, let it warm up for a couple minutes, disengaged choke, then it idled fine for a couple minutes so I went to give it gas in neutral. Once I gave it gas, it sputtered and died quickly. Then was curious to see what the spark plug was doing (due to above issue) and it was covered in black soot (carb fouled) Why would it be like that after one start of the bike? Clymer says because it's running rich, so I leaned out using the Pilot Mixture Screw.

Started bike again and then it died again when giving gas...


I am willing to pay via beer or a reasonable charge for someone who knows their way around an issue like this. Need to be on the road by Saturday / Sunday at the latest. On a long trip and am pretty desperate at this point.

Anyone out there that may be able to help?

Thanks!!

Lars
 

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A Hissing Gas Cap?

The Vent to the Fuel Tank is plugged! I really don't care what you've looked at, tested, blown compressed air through, etc. A hissing gas cap means the vent "circuit" of the gas tank is blocked somewhere! Emphasis here on the word "circuit;" By which I mean each and every every single part, large and small, obvious and hidden, of the vent system is a possible suspect. All components of the vent circuit should be assumed to be guilty until proven innocent.

Unlatch the Gas Cap and see if that doesn't immediately solve the problem. (Don't ride the bike around this way!) Diagnosis ONLY!

If opening the Gas Cap eliminates the problem; check the small hose(s) that come off the rear of the fuel tank near where the front of the seat contacts it. Trace it/them (depends on the emissions system on your bike) and make sure there are no kinks or pinch spots. Remember, if you are looking at this with the seat off the bike, THAT may be what is pinching a line! If your KLR has the vapor recovery system and all of the hoses look just fine, things can get a bit more complicated. But I'd start with the small hose(s) first as that is the most likely place to find the problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
A Hissing Gas Cap?

The Vent to the Fuel Tank is plugged!

Unlatch the Gas Cap and see if that doesn't immediately solve the problem. (Don't ride the bike around this way!) Diagnosis ONLY!

If opening the Gas Cap eliminates the problem; check the small hose(s) that come off the rear of the fuel tank near where the front of the seat contacts it. Trace it/them (depends on the emissions system on your bike) and make sure there are no kinks or pinch spots. If your KLR has the vapor recovery system and all of the hoses look just fine, things can get a bit more complicated. But I'd start with the small hose(s) first as that is the most likely place to find the problem.
This is annoying how I can't just link to my other thread by the name of "HEELLLLPPP -Starts fine but dies when throttle engaged" but this is an update from that which I've been doing this morning...

Hey guys, quick update. I have tried everything i mentioned I would ...

1. Slide diaphragm properly seated
2. Spring seat not covering holes
3. Gas cap vents clear - tore apart and sprayed with compressed air
4. Air intake tube is undamaged and not leaking
5. Air filter - rechecked and installed properly and is clean
6. Choke cable - working and seated properly
7. Stator cable (from previous electrical issue) in working order
8. Testing different richness during ignition with both choke on and off
a. Tested pilot screw at 1.25 turns - no distinguishable foul of spark plug
b. Tested pilot screw at 1.75 turns - spark plug then oil fouled
9. Just drained the float bowl and fuel line from petcock - about 2 oz. of fuel in there, is that too much? Is it flooding?

Each time i am trying to start the bike, it feels like the problem is getting worse, not better. Harder to start, symptoms on the spark plug are changing. Do I need to get into the top end at this point and do a compression test? Do I need to check the valves?

What else could be going on with this thing?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
NO! Your problem is NOT mechanical inside the engine!
Thank you, and good to know!! Always want less work, ha!

What about the plug being oil fouled during the last start test? What does that indicate? Clymer says incorrect jetting, so Ive turned it back to recommended 1 3/8. Going to try again.

Also, could this be electrical? Read on another post that the guys Interlock Diode was malfunctionioning? Is that the Diode unit that links to the CDI?
 

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Please see the attached pdf file.

This file contains the pages from Kawasaki that cover the Fuel Tank Vent Systems that have been used on a Gen 1 (up to 2007) KLR 650.

Help me if you will.

First, how many rubber hoses are attached to the Fuel Petcock? The valve that turns gas on and off to the carburetor. There will be at least one, but can be two on some versions.

Second, How many rubber hoses are attached to the back of the Fuel Tank? Roughly where the front of the seat covers the back of the Fuel Tank. You may need to remove the seat to check this.
 

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This is annoying how I can't just link to my other thread by the name of "HEELLLLPPP -Starts fine but dies when throttle engaged" but this is an update from that which I've been doing this morning...

Hey guys, quick update. I have tried everything i mentioned I would ...

1. Slide diaphragm properly seated
2. Spring seat not covering holes
3. Gas cap vents clear - tore apart and sprayed with compressed air
4. Air intake tube is undamaged and not leaking
5. Air filter - rechecked and installed properly and is clean
6. Choke cable - working and seated properly
7. Stator cable (from previous electrical issue) in working order
8. Testing different richness during ignition with both choke on and off
a. Tested pilot screw at 1.25 turns - no distinguishable foul of spark plug
b. Tested pilot screw at 1.75 turns - spark plug then oil fouled
9. Just drained the float bowl and fuel line from petcock - about 2 oz. of fuel in there, is that too much? Is it flooding?

Each time i am trying to start the bike, it feels like the problem is getting worse, not better. Harder to start, symptoms on the spark plug are changing. Do I need to get into the top end at this point and do a compression test? Do I need to check the valves?

What else could be going on with this thing?
Have you read this?
Care & Feeding Of The Keihin Carb

Could you have possibly lost the Silver Needle Jet (collar) in the 1st color picture?
The silver needle jet normally protrudes about 1/8th to 3/16th inch up into the throttle bore. If the needle jet is missing the engine will run very Rich above 1/8th throttle.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Have you read this?

Could you have possibly lost the Silver Needle Jet (collar) in the 1st color picture?
The silver needle jet normally protrudes about 1/8th to 3/16th inch up into the throttle bore. If the needle jet is missing the engine will run very Rich above 1/8th throttle.
I did not lose that, but what would happen if i put it in upside down by accident? Would that also cause it to run to rich to idle or turnover?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Please see the attached pdf file.

This file contains the pages from Kawasaki that cover the Fuel Tank Vent Systems that have been used on a Gen 1 (up to 2007) KLR 650.

Help me if you will.

First, how many rubber hoses are attached to the Fuel Petcock? The valve that turns gas on and off to the carburetor. There will be at least one, but can be two on some versions.

Second, How many rubber hoses are attached to the back of the Fuel Tank? Roughly where the front of the seat covers the back of the Fuel Tank. You may need to remove the seat to check this.
There are two hoses that run from petcock to fuel tank ... one is the vacuum hose i believe and the other is the fuel line. Vacuum hose being a little smaller in diameter than the fuel hose.

No hose running from the nub of the fuel tank in the rear. Of course, I have been riding with it like that since I bought it some 6,000 miles ago and it has never seemed to affect the engine.
 

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There are two hoses that run from petcock to fuel tank ... one is the vacuum hose i believe and the other is the fuel line. Vacuum hose being a little smaller in diameter than the fuel hose.

No hose running from the nub of the fuel tank in the rear. Of course, I have been riding with it like that since I bought it some 6,000 miles ago and it has never seemed to affect the engine.
Thank you.

OK, good, you don't have the California Emissions System on your bike. So this means that there are only two things that could be causing a vacuum in the Gas Tank, which is the cause of the hissing that you say you are hearing. either the Vent that is inside the Gas Cap Vent is stuck closed (broken) -or- (and this would be rather unlikely) the line that comes out the rear of the Gas Tank (under the seat) is blocked between where you can see it and the Gas Cap.

So let's try one or both of the following two things:

The first is pretty easy. Hopefully you have two ignition keys. Put one in the Gas Cap so that you'll be able to open it quickly without shutting the bike off. Now run the bike until the problem crops up. While it is running poorly (and before it stalls) open the gas cap. If the engine smooths out within say 5 to 10 seconds that will confirm that the problem is fuel starvation due to a vacuum that is developing in the gas tank. As fuel is consumed, if the vent is blocked, it will cause a vacuum to develop. Since the carburetor fuel supply is gravity fed (no fuel pump), it doesn't take much of a vacuum in the gas tank to really screw things up. Note: The gas tank on your bike should NEVER have a vacuum. The only way a vacuum is generated is if the gas tank is not vented properly. This means that either the connection between the line that comes out the rear of the Gas Tank (under the seat) is blocked between it and the Gas Cap or the Gas Cap is broken internally. Although the line being plugged is very unlikely you can check it quickly. With the Gas Cap open blow air (attach a hose and blow through it by mouth) it should be open and clear as a drinking straw. Note: Blow do not Suck. If the line is open, but opening the gas cap fixes the symptoms, you'll need to replace the gas cap.

Another option would be to start with a full or nearly full tank of gas. Make sure that the Gas Cap is shut. Take the two hoses off the Fuel Petcock. Run a hose from the fitting that normally goes to the float bowl of the carburetor into a large empty gas can that can hold 2 - 3 gallons of gasoline. Attach a hand held vacuum pump, mechanics sometimes call them MityVac's which is a brand name or "super suckers" which they aren't, to the fitting that normally goes to intake manifold vacuum. With the Petcock open and vacuum applied to the Petcock, gas should flow in a steady steam from the gas tank into the gas can. If there is a problem with the vent in the gas cap, after awhile (and it may take a gallon or two for this to show up) the rate of fuel flow out of the gas tank into your gas can will begin to slow down. You may also start to hear the hissing sound you mentioned earlier. Keep an eye on the vacuum you have applied to the Petcock. Keep it above 5" at all times. A loss of vacuum to the petcock will shut the fuel flow off, which it is supposed to do, but then you'll have a false diagnosis.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thanks for all the help guys, bike is running again :)

Not exactly sure what solved it but going to throw out a few ideas:

1. I put the collar in upside down by accident when I put the carb back together
2. I also put the plastic piece in the slide diaphragm upside down which i believe prevents it from acting properly
3. When my friend and I were working on the bike finding the electrical issue, he might have messed with the throttle/idle screw - maybe to get the throttle off to get to some electrical cables? - i am not sure. All i know is that when I finally got her running again and was testing the idle, i was playing with the screw and was able to recreate the original problem.

So, as dumb as number 3 might have been to overlook, it might have been the culprit the entire time. I need to remember to check for the little things from now.

Thanks again everyone!!
Lars
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thanks for all the help guys, bike is running again :)

Not exactly sure what solved it but going to throw out a few ideas:

1. I put the collar in upside down by accident when I put the carb back together
2. I also put the plastic piece in the slide diaphragm upside down which i believe prevents it from acting properly
Especially thanks to Damocles for making me rewatch those videos to find errors above**
3. When my friend and I were working on the bike finding the electrical issue, he might have messed with the throttle/idle screw - maybe to get the throttle off to get to some electrical cables? - i am not sure. All i know is that when I finally got her running again and was testing the idle, i was playing with the screw and was able to recreate the original problem.

So, as dumb as number 3 might have been to overlook, it might have been the culprit the entire time. I need to remember to check for the little things from now.

Thanks again everyone!!
Lars
 
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