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Polaris asked me to complete a survey today. My response was pretty negative as far as checking the boxes went. In the comments at the end I simply pointed out that they were 50% more expensive, a couple of days quicker, and that neither lab had an edge on the quality of the analysis, though Blackstone's report is easier to read and has universal averages as well as customer history.

I doubt they will care much but if they do reach out to me I'll be sure and share that here.
 
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I don't send my samples to Blackstone. I run them through Empire Cat. My area Caterpillar dealer. Takes up to three days for results, from the time I drop the sample off. I'm very happy with them. Detailed analysis and very timely.
 

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Discussion Starter · #163 ·
I don't send my samples to Blackstone. I run them through Empire Cat. My area Caterpillar dealer. Takes up to three days for results, from the time I drop the sample off. I'm very happy with them. Detailed analysis and very timely.
I will ask if the Empire Cat lab has enough various samples from numerous KLRs to have a Universal Average for KLRs.

Do you by any chance have a KLR report from them, from your bike that you might share with us here?

Early in this thread, Blackstone Labs had about 30 fairly normal reports from KLRs included in their UA for KLRs.
Between Tom, myself & a few others here they should have about 10 - 15 more fairly normal reports included in their UA.

I for one would like to read a report from your KLR or anyones KLR, from any lab, with any flavor of oil.
 

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I couldn't begin to predict how many KLR they have in the system. If any, besides mine. I'll have to dig to find the last report from my 09. It's been down for a while. I haven't had the 07 done yet, as it's only had one oil change since I picked it up, and I didn't have the kit. It'll get sampled next go around.
 

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I have one of those oil change vacuum pumps that I stick the end of the tube in there to suck those dregs out So far it seems to work well and leaves very little oil in the back. I stick a lint free rag in there and let it soak up any leftover. I like the idea of the temp blocking of that hole, but so far haven't found anything suitable .
 

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Discussion Starter · #166 ·
I like the idea of the temp blocking of that hole, but so far haven't found anything suitable .
I use the little red vent nipple caps from brand new flooded cell batteries.

But I think that a golf tee might also work.
 
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I
Tom Schmitz,
A while back in "Oil Pressure, How Much Ya' Got?", you suggested that you would/did send in a sample! I have not seen it.
I'd like to see it.

So, I'd like to go first.




I will suggest, it looks Excellent considering I have 3000 miles or 1.5 times the Average (1900miles) on this oil. I think I will go to 5000 mile intervals.
Paul
haven’t sent the sample in to Mobil Oil Lab yet, I indicated that I was & what I intend to do is confirm or deny the claims of superior filtering by the Scotts Performance Stainless & the Stock or OEM Paper Element Filter & possibly a K&N Paper Element as well to the Mobil Oil Folks ! I will post the report when finished on this Post for all to see !
Sincerely & Respectfully !
John D Watson 2007 KLR650 1,250 miles,
 

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Discussion Starter · #168 ·
John D Watson 2007 KLR650 1,250 miles,
Very early oil samples will usually Always show quite High wear-metals, because the engine is not anywhere close to fully 'polished-in' yet. I kinda' dislike using the term "broken-in" any more.
 

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John D Watson 2007 KLR650 1,250 miles
Wow, only 1250 miles on a 2007? Want to sell? :)

Agree with pdwestman above; wear (and consequent debris) rates may vary widely with mileage at onset.

Regardless, don't think oil filters are particularly critical, as long as oil is changed at reasonable intervals. Honda made jillions of small engines with no replaceable filters. Even on a KLR, the bypass valve opens when the filter becomes clogged, regardless of brand or particulate-size straining capability.
 

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I will ask if the Empire Cat lab has enough various samples from numerous KLRs to have a Universal Average for KLRs.

Do you by any chance have a KLR report from them, from your bike that you might share with us here?

Early in this thread, Blackstone Labs had about 30 fairly normal reports from KLRs included in their UA for KLRs.
Between Tom, myself & a few others here they should have about 10 - 15 more fairly normal reports included in their UA.

I for one would like to read a report from your KLR or anyones KLR, from any lab, with any flavor of oil.
I will make sure I post Mobil Oils Lab Report as it’s the one we use on those millions dollars + engines in the offshore industry & we have engines out there that must operate at the very peak of perfection and optimal or near perfect lubrication at all times & they are absolutely serious about there lubrication capabilities of their oil filters & oil & there oil analysis in every way imaginable & they use Mobil Oils Analysis so it should be very interesting to see their results it will be a while but I’ve got it on my list & I promise to everyone I will post it here to you Sir, & to the General Forum as well ! I would say around March as I’m going to send the filters too ? i Have to run the oil & the different filters before I send in ! So I’ve got to get this cooling fan issue finished soon ! Hopefully, Sir by tomorrow I can proceed with your directives ,Thanks Again ,For your Help Sir , I also wanted to wish you a Happy Healthy Holiday Season !& a Happy New Coming Year !
Sincerely & Respectfully !
john D Watson 2007 KLR650 1,250 Miles
 

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Discussion Starter · #171 · (Edited)
John D Watson,
I will suggest that any oil sample from your KLR650 should have an Absolute Minimum of 2000 miles run time.
This will allow it to be easily compared to other Owners individual reports and the UA's available at that date in most of the reports in this thread. But, again a very young engine may not be fully polished in.

Personally, I'd prefer to see more owners run their oils longer, 3000 or even 5000 miles if the 1st report indicates that both the engine and their chosen oil is performing well. Save some of those dinosaurs for later use, even if it is only 2.5 quarts at a time.

Did you by chance go deep enough into the thread to read one gentlemans 7500 mile oil report? It is excellent.
You do understand to divide the ppm of wear metals by the thousands traveled?
Alum 22 / 5.061 = 4.347 per 1k on my first ever report. verses the UA Alum 33 / 1.9 = 17.368 per 1k.
Iron 32 / 5.061 = 6.323 per 1k on my first ever report, verses the UA Iron 23 / 1.9 = 12.105 per 1k.
 

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I will make sure I post Mobil Oils Lab Report as it’s the one we use on those millions dollars + engines in the offshore industry & we have engines out there that must operate at the very peak of perfection and optimal or near perfect lubrication at all times & they are absolutely serious about there lubrication capabilities of their oil filters & oil & there oil analysis in every way imaginable & they use Mobil Oils Analysis so it should be very interesting to see their results it will be a while but I’ve got it on my list & I promise to everyone I will post it here to you Sir, & to the General Forum as well ! I would say around March as I’m going to send the filters too ? i Have to run the oil & the different filters before I send in ! So I’ve got to get this cooling fan issue finished soon ! Hopefully, Sir by tomorrow I can proceed with your directives ,Thanks Again ,For your Help Sir , I also wanted to wish you a Happy Healthy Holiday Season !& a Happy New Coming Year !
Sincerely & Respectfully !
john D Watson 2007 KLR650 1,250 Miles
An intimate (and seldom discussed) question, John D. Watson: What's the story behind the 14 model-years (true count; 2007 counts as one year) old KLR, with extraordinary low mileage (1,250 miles) for that age? Surely, therin hangs a tale!

Now, what action will you take from the data in your Mobil Oils Lab Report? What action might the readership take?

As to OIL FILTERS, are the owners of these million-plus dollar engines satisfied with the performance of their oil filters? Do these oil filters employ bypass valves (as do KLRs)? What analysis do you expect from Mobil Oils Lab regarding your own oil filters? (Honest question; just curious regarding what criteria and what pass/fail scale might be applied.) And, again, I wonder at your action from the filter analysis data, as from the oil analysis.

Thanks for your offer, sharing your oil-and-filter analysis initiative data.

--------------------------------------

Please refresh us on your comment, "So I’ve got to get this cooling fan issue finished soon!"
 

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Discussion Starter · #173 · (Edited)
Ok Guys,
I promised a while back that I'd post my most recent BSL oil report, with the Kawasaki 20W50 petroleum engine oil that I put in it a little over 2 years and just under 3000 miles ago.
I wound up doing most of those miles during the cooler times of year, which really was not intended to happen.
Such is life. But I'm sure it had some effect.

I used the same 2.18mm / .086inch / #44drilled orifice as the previous 5000 mile run with 10W40. Also the secondary crankshaft mini screen oil filter which I had built myself was still installed & never intend to be removed.
The presents of both of those, with the thicker oil was immediately, visibly, higher readings on my camshaft oil pressure gauge at start-up and at Fully Hot engine temps.
Also I avoided adding make-up engine oil & made this run with 1/2 to near minimum level showing in the oil level window!
And you might wonder WHY I would choose to do That?

Well a few years back already, the silly 'Engineers' at the Thailand Kawasaki plant ground the label off of the clutch cover mold which had clearly suggested 2.5L of oil to fill the KLR650 engines and then they re-wrote the owners handbooks & Service Manuals to reflect the 2.1L of their current 'suggestion'.
They apparently Do Not Understand that the KLR engines ALWAYS drain back the oil filter Volume into the crankcase when parked! Because the KLR oil system does not have an Anti-Drain back valve like automobile systems DO Have!
Plus many owners do NOT check their oil levels nearly Often Enough when running Interstate speeds on these 'designed for 55mph America' mid 80's engine design bikes.

So I abused my bike Again, in the Interest of KLR Science.

My 45 total ppm Iron level or 15.33ppm per 1000 miles traveled reflects the low oil volume & less dilution by make up oil added, IMO. And probably to a lesser extent my operation in cooler weather than ideal with 20W50 oil. But I have read Higher ppm Iron levels in other peoples BSL oil reports, so all is well.
Interestingly, my ppm of Copper was lower and ppm of Aluminum was near my average, yet still lower than the BSL UA.

I sent 2 additional e-mails to BSL's (which delayed this posting some) to get their opinions and some additional information. And I will cut and paste those into a second posting AFTER my good friend & Moderator of this forum, Tom Schmitz adds my BSL Oil Report (which I hope he received?). :)
 

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Ok Guys,
I promised a while back that I'd post my most recent BSL oil report, with the Kawasaki 20W50 petroleum engine oil that I put in it a little over 2 years and just under 3000 miles ago.
I wound up doing most of those miles during the cooler times of year, which really was not intended to happen.
Such is life. But I'm sure it had some effect.

I used the same 2.18mm / .086inch / #44drilled orifice as the previous 5000 mile run with 10W40. Also the secondary crankshaft mini screen oil filter which I had built myself was still installed & never intend to be removed.
The presents of both of those, with the thicker oil was immediately, visibly, higher readings on my camshaft oil pressure gauge at start-up and at Fully Hot engine temps.
Also I avoided adding make-up engine oil & made this run with 1/2 to near minimum level showing in the oil level window!
And you might wonder WHY I would choose to do That?

Well a few years back already, the silly 'Engineers' at the Thailand Kawasaki plant ground the label off of the clutch cover mold which had clearly suggested 2.5L of oil to fill the KLR650 engines and then they re-wrote the owners handbooks & Service Manuals to reflect the 2.1L of their current 'suggestion'.
They apparently Do Not Understand that the KLR engines ALWAYS drain back the oil filter Volume into the crankcase when parked! Because the KLR oil system does not have an Anti-Drain back valve like automobile systems DO Have!
Plus many owners do NOT check their oil levels nearly Often Enough when running Interstate speeds on these 'designed for 55mph America' mid 80's engine design bikes.

So I abused my bike Again, in the Interest of KLR Science.

My 45 total ppm Iron level or 15.33ppm per 1000 miles traveled reflects the low oil volume & less dilution by make up oil added, IMO. And probably to a lesser extent my operation in cooler weather than ideal with 20W50 oil. But I have read Higher ppm Iron levels in other peoples BSL oil reports, so all is well.
Interestingly, my ppm of Copper was lower and ppm of Aluminum was near my average, yet still lower than the BSL UA.

I sent 2 additional e-mails to BSL's (which delayed this posting some) to get their opinions and some additional information. And I will cut and paste those into a second posting AFTER my good friend & Moderator of this forum, Tom Schmitz adds my BSL Oil Report (which I hope he received?) to this posting. :)
Outstanding on the oil analysis ! Thank-You !
I appreciate your time & effort ! I will post the one I’m gonna du within the next 3-6 months with stock & then aftermarket Scotts w/ magnet in side along with the stainless oil filter! One with stock filter & factory Kawasaki 20/50 and the other royal purple & the Scott’s Performance first with Kawasaki oil & the factory stuff ! then the factory stuff with Royal Purple ? Hope to get these 3tests with 3500 miles or better on each change I know that fairly early but it’s 75 degrees out side herd in Texas @ it will be 100 degrees everyday in mid April ! I can’t in take my oil to 5,000 miles as it looks like burns t disel oil down here at 5,000 miles ? But to satisfy the readers I will do what ever they may feel is necessary to help !
Thank-You ! Pdwestman !
Sincerely & Respectfully !
John D Watson !
P.S. Got a link to the side cover screen modification that you did ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #175 ·
P.S. Got a link to the side cover screen modification that you did ?
The home-made crankshaft mini filter is in the latter half of my original "Oil Pressure, how much you got?" thread.
Its main purpose is only during cold starts, when the oil filter by-pass valve may be open & during oil filter cavity Draining.
Keep reading, JDW.
 

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Discussion Starter · #176 ·
This is my latest oil analysis from Blackstone.
Font Material property Parallel Screenshot Rectangle
 

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Discussion Starter · #177 ·
OK. We got a little 'out of synch' due to Technical Difficulties on my part. Thanks again go to Tom Schmitz for straightening it out.
Anyways, BLS solicits any addition comments we would care to supply about our oil samples.
> >If you have any interesting follow-up information about this sample
> >that you would like to share with us, please do! We like to keep
> >learning, and people like you are a great source of information for
> >us as analysts.
> >
> >Sincerely,
> >The Blackstone Team
So I took advantage of the opportunity to do so.
> >Hello to you at Blackstone Laboratories,
> >
> >May I suggest that the reason my oil report shows a higher ppm of
> >Iron is because I forced a smaller Volume of oil to perform more Work?
> >
> >Coincidentally, I also wound up operating more in cooler/colder
> >Spring & Autumn weather with the heavier oil grade in the engine,
> >over the past 2 years,
> >as compared to past samples.
> >
> >The Kawasaki plant in Thailand has reduced the printed
> >recommendation of oil volume in the newer engines of this model
> >from 2.5L to 2.1L.
> >And many newer, less informed owners may not keep their oil level
> >topped up on a regular basis.
> >
> >I was sort of mimicking the possible scenario.
> >
> >On a ppm per thousand miles traveled, I feel that the Iron is still
> >a fair bit lower than some of the other KLR650 owners reports that
> > I have read,
> >on internet forums.
And their response,
>There is probably truth to the iron level being related to less
>oil performing more work. Of all the wear metals, iron responds the
>most to that sort of thing. You're right though -- this is still a
>decent iron level from a ppm-per-mile perspective, even if the engine
>did generate a little more steel wear than we're used to seeing. If
>iron stayed around this level going forward, there wouldn't be
>anything wrong with that. Thanks again for the additional sample
>details. It's always nice to know what the engine manufacturer is
>recommending, too.
And I thought about a couple of more items of note,
>I forgot to ask a very important question. Which I WISH was Included
>on all of your reports?
>What is the Current Average Mileage on oils in your UA's for my
>engine? (Couldn't this be easily listed in the UA column?)
>Kawasaki KLR650 1987-2022
>
>Which is very important information to know to calculate the ppm of
>wear metals per 1k traveled for an Accurate Comparison.
>Last I had confirmed/read (June 2019) from BSL's, the UA's average
>mileage on oils for the Kawasaki KLR650 was about 2300 miles.
>
>Also, how many samples are currently included in your UA's for the
>Kawasaki KLR650?
And again I received their response,
>It would certainly be nice to have the
>current average interval included in the report (without having to
>mention it in the report comment). I'm not sure if we have any plans
>to include that or not, but I'll pass the suggestion on to my bosses.
>If you'd like, I can make a note in your file so that an analyst will
>report the current interval in the comments each time. Let me know if
>that's something you'd want.
>
>The universal average interval for the Kawasaki KLR650 is still
>~2,300 miles (2,265 to be exact), and 70 samples make up that file
>(we have likely tested more KRL650s, but we don't include wear-in
>samples or "problem" samples in the universal averages).
So I accepted their offer to always receive the current UA mileage for KLR's on my reports,
to possibly encourage them to include that info on all reports.
Yes, I would like to always be aware of the current UA average
mileage of the BSL oil reports of the Kawasaki KLR650.
To calculate a accurate comparison of the ppm of wear metals between
mine and others on a ppm per thousand traveled basis.
And their reply,
>Great! I'll make sure we get current UA average interval included on
>your reports. Thanks Paul!
>Best wishes,
>Miranda Beck
>Analyst
>Blackstone Labs
I must say they are a very nice company to deal with.
Their current cost per sample is $30.00. They will ship anyone FREE sample kits with self-addressed Postage Paid return packaging.
Just go to their web-site. www.blackstone-labs.com

I did refill my engine with Kawasaki petroleum 10W40 oil.
And I reinstalled my smallest ever tested 2.06mm / .081inch / #46 drilled crankshaft oil control orifice.
And I intend to keep my oil level Filled to the TOP of the oil level window on an 'as needed basis', just like we all should for the rest of its life!

Hummm. Maybe I should have tried the Mobil 1 15W50 Automotive oil?
Too late, this time. :)
 
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Paul, I advise against using Mobil 1 auto oil, or any other synthetic oil not formulated for motorcycles. I did this on a couple of previous bikes and got clutch slippage. When I went back to motorcycle oil or diesel rated oil, the slipping stopped.
 
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