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Discussion Starter #1
Just recently spent the weekend on a great ride around the Talimena area. A friend and I rode the K-Trail, which is a fairly long and sometimes challenging trail. My friend was on a BMW R 100GS. His bike was able to practically idle in first gear up some of the staircase like obstacles at speeds just fast enough to keep his feet on the pegs. My KLR just insists on being revved to around 3k to go up some of these things. Then I end up running him down and kinda bombing the hill so to speak going up it. Trying to slow down it bogs, then you end up dabbing your feet everywhere to stay up on the bike.

I'd like to have better torque down low for crawling in first and staying balanced on the pegs.
Is this something that the 688 kit would help with?
14 tooth front sprocket?
Both?
 

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Both can't hurt but the 14 tooth CS will make the most difference for what you are talking about.....or just ride faster! ;-)


Dave
 

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I must admit, when I bought my klr it was the biggest thumper I ever owned. Had a BSA, xr, xt500, xl350. The KLR had the least amount of torque, little disappointing... rev a little higher, slip the clutch a little more.
KLR is by far better on the highway than other thumpers, so I am thinking it's a trade off....

However, I am wondering if anyone here has any knowledge of some of the HP camshafts out there?
 

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Nothing I have seen specifically addresses increasing low-end torque.

These folks Web Cam Inc. - Performance and Racing Camshafts / Kawasaki KLR 650 (96-07) DOHC 4v have some grinds that all advertise increased mid to upper-end performance.

As of right now they have a couple of grinds on clearance at about half-price. Might not be a bad way to find out what they will do for you.

Hot Cams Hot Cams, Inc. advertises a similar product. Theirs seems to have less lift and duration.

I really know diddly squat about cams. Hell, I'm befuddled by the MC Mod as to why it does what it is claimed to do. I have always found it interesting that the aftermarket cams are always described as increasing mid to upper performance when what you'd want for the KLR is more bottom end. Kinda makes me wonder if, reading between the lines, they can't improve on the KLR's low-end and torque curve.

As much as I love to fiddle with the damn thing, just for the sake of fiddling, I've never been really tempted to go with cams.

Tom
 
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Yep, guys have done it all; cams, ported heads, pumper carbs, big bore kits....you name it. Unfortunately the KLR's engine isn't that suited for high HP numbers compared with more modern offerings.

Stock = 34hp

add KLX kit, airbox mods and a silencer...1-3 hp

big bore kit; you're looking at +3 hp or so.

.....everthing I mentioned above and you MIGHT get to 45 but probably low 40's.

The KLR is revered for it's reliability and longevity....not it's horsepower and while the big bore, jetting, airbox/silencer stuff wouldn't hurt these things, higher compression and hot cams would. ...and you're still never going to compete with other bikes like a KTM690.

If you wanted big power, the real answer is that this isn't your best choice.....by a long shot.


Dave
 

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...just reading your signature; I see you've done the jetting (klx kit done right I hope), silencer and unifilter. Have you pulled your snorkle? any other airbox mods? you should really pull your snorkle and consider the L mod or 4 1" holes.

Mine are almost the same (even the Cogent stuff) so;

- KLX kit
- Unifilter
- snorkle-ectomy
- 4 - 1" holes
- LeoVince X3 on one and FMF Q4 on the other.
- 14 tooth C/S sprockets.

....they aren't going to keep up with my old ZX6R....or even my KTM300 but I find the power to be adequate.

Cheers,
Dave
 

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Big torque is almost always associated with long stroke. The KLR does have a shorter stroke than bore, torque may never be a option.

I do personally love the flat power curve, easy to manage off road.
Like I said. rev a little higher, slip clutch a little more..
 

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I know a guy who has a KLR650 and recently added the Mighty 690 to his stable. He has over 1000 miles on the 690 and could give an interesting comparison of the two.

/POKE/

Tom
 

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JasonK94Z,
Dave already questioned your jetting, but I will go a little further.

Did you/ have you opened up your air box as he suggested or not?
If not you might be a touch rich down low.

How much do you weigh?
I'm only 150-155 after a shower, probably about 175 in full gear with 10 lb. tool bag. But my light-flywheeled 1987 -A1 will pull down to 1500-1800 rpm if I ask it to.
(It will rattle a little. Old balancer sprockets!)

Your heavier flywheeled 2003 ought to pull down to at least 1800- 2000 rpm, with proper jetting. If not, your bike might be a good candidate for the 'Free-power mod' or 'MC Mod' or 'Exhaust cam advancement mod', which ever you care to call it.
This mod usually "enhances and smoothes" the power curve from 1500-6500 rpm. Some Gen1 bikes love the mod! Some lose power at altitude (5000+ ft.).
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I have already pulled the snorkle.
I use a UNI filter.
Not too enthusiastic about cutting up the top of the airbox. Deep water crossings sometimes, and anything to prevent water entry is my friend in my opinion.

The bike has a DJ jet kit. Until recently, I used the DJ140 main jet, but last week while cleaning the carb, I switched down to the DJ136 main jet. DJ needle on the #3 slot per their instructions, and drilled slide.
42 pilot jet due to a hesitation issue and hard starting. This solved it.

Lexx exhaust

MC power mod done as well

Edit: I weigh 230 lbs.
 

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I have already pulled the snorkle.
I use a UNI filter.
Not too enthusiastic about cutting up the top of the airbox. Deep water crossings sometimes, and anything to prevent water entry is my friend in my opinion.

The bike has a DJ jet kit. Until recently, I used the DJ140 main jet, but last week while cleaning the carb, I switched down to the DJ136 main jet. DJ needle on the #3 slot per their instructions, and drilled slide.
42 pilot jet due to a hesitation issue and hard starting. This solved it.

Lexx exhaust

MC power mod done as well

Edit: I weigh 230 lbs.

Ahhh, now we are getting somewhere!

1) All real dirtbikes don't even have an airbox lid; you don't need it and the holes are higher than the factory air intake anyhow. You don't NEED to do it but it does help despite what you may read elsewhere. I'll follow this up with KLR Cary's airbox flow test to show you what I mean

2) The Dynojet kit is crap; needle is fine but the recommended jetting is WAY too rich. ....and the numbers aren't the same DJ vs. KH so keep that in mind. I have a DJ needle in one KLR and it works fine....with a 142KH main jet, 2nd position, no washer and 2 turns on the fuel screw.

Dave
 

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Thanks to Tom for digging this up a while back;

A lot of missunderstanding with airbox issues.

First, the screen. Airflow gains are not linear. Removing the screen with an otherwise stock KLR airbox will only gain you 2 cfm. The engine won't know the differance. However, with a heavily modified airbox, the gain from removing the screen is 8 cfm. Depending on what else is done to the engine, you may make more power. I doubt that you'll feel it, but a dyno will show it. Butt-dyno's can detect very small low rpm changes, but don't detect higher rpm changes very well at all. You'll likely not detect it, but that does not mean it's not there.

Comparing screen removal to other models is wrong, particularly with the newer sportbikes. With them, the screen often serves another purpose as well. Air distribution in a 4 cyl sportbike can be a real problem, particularly with "ram air". Removing the screen on them can cause very real losses, depending on the model. That does NOT apply to the KLR.

Same thing with air filters. There is only about 2 cfm differance from the best filter (UNI), to the worst (K&N). With a modified airbox, that differance grows to 9 cfm.

Here is the flow chart:

Completely stock - 64.8cfm
Same - Remove snorkle - 74cfm
Same - With UNI filter - 76.2cfm
Same - Remove screen - 78.6cfm
Same - Small "L" cut - 85.1cfm
Same - Large "L" cut, open snorkle area further - 92.4
Same - Remove door - 103.2

Alternate - UNI filter, No snorkle, With screen, No door, No "L" cut - 95.4

All at 2" of water, tested at 1 1/2" and 3" and averaged to 2"

To answer the larger question, how much air can the KLR really use?
....................
A stock KLR about 70-80cfm. With a good pipe about 75-90cfm. A modified motor about 90-100cfm. Having a bit more capacity than you you need will not hurt anything. The effects are not linear though. Going from 65cfm to 75cfm you will likely notice, but going from 75 to 85 cfm you likely won't.

Part of the confusion might be due to the effects of the carb shimming. Since that mod is for a stock needle, the snorkle removal serves not just to add air, but to lean out the top end. The stock KLR till 07 is rich on the top. ( The 08 has a smaller main jet.) Airbox mods have much more effect on top end mixture, so, with the stock needle it also helps straighten out the fuel curve.

Finally the airbox door. You've got to carefull there. You don't have clean air there. It's flowing past that door when riding. You can easily create a partial low pressure area there, depending on wind direction, and where you place your leg!

Cary
 

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I don't recommend removing the screen (it's a PITA for one thing) or running without an airbox door....for reasons that should be obvious.

The take-away is that a stock KLR with your mods can use 80 - 90 CFM. The stock airbox without the snorkle is 74...add a uni-filter it's 76. His info doesn't show the 4 - 1" holes or even the L-mod retaining the screen, but you can extrapolate it'd be in the range of 80 - 82.

Do or do not; it is your bike.... but it does help and I've yet to hear a convincing downside.

Cheers,
Dave
 

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...you're still too rich....but better than you were. a 140 DJ = a 152KH and your 136DJ = 148KH. You should be using a 142KH = 132DJ.

...as I said, I was instructed by people who have set up KLR jetting many times using an A/F sniffer and I used the DJ needle and a 142 KH main on the 2nd clip.....just like the KLX kit recommendations and the bike is spot on. My 2nd KLR uses a full KLX kit with the same jetting and both bikes run identically.

2 cents,
Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thank you Dave for all of your input on this. :desismiley1:

I'll go ahead and cut holes in my airbox. Anything to help out the bike.

I will also track down a 142 KH main jet. Dj says put the two small washers above the e-clip. Did you do that?

I'm guessing the 42 pilot is ok here as well? Seems to run and start better with it.

While it is so tempting to do the 688 kit this year, I'm hesitant to do so because my bike only has 12,500 miles on it. It was low mileage when I bought it in 2010. Doesn't use any oil at all either. But, I would welcome less vibes on the hwy for sure!
 

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I will also track down a 142 KH main jet. Dj says put the two small washers above the e-clip. Did you do that?
JasonK94Z,
One needs to install washers or a KLX spacer Above the needle clip to keep the needle from 'floating-up' too much.
The needle needs to have just a touch of slack with the white plastic retainer held down into place.
Too much slack in the needle fitment causes a rich condition every time the throttle is decreased, at least for a moment.
 

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Thank you Dave for all of your input on this. :desismiley1:

I'll go ahead and cut holes in my airbox. Anything to help out the bike.

I will also track down a 142 KH main jet. Dj says put the two small washers above the e-clip. Did you do that?

I'm guessing the 42 pilot is ok here as well? Seems to run and start better with it.

While it is so tempting to do the 688 kit this year, I'm hesitant to do so because my bike only has 12,500 miles on it. It was low mileage when I bought it in 2010. Doesn't use any oil at all either. But, I would welcome less vibes on the hwy for sure!
No problem. Normally I try to error on the side of stock but that data from Cary proves to me that the holes/L mod are/is worthwhile....and again, I haven't been convinced as to any downside.

I don't use any washers on the DJ or KLX needle...though they'd need to be under the clip, not over to change the jetting. Put it on the second position and run with no washers and it should work fine.

The 42 pilot is probably fine.

As far as the 688 kit, I'm in the same boat; I'd like to do it but I won't rip apart a perfectly running engine to get 2-3hp....not worth it to me.

My 2001 has 20,000 miles and runs like a top with no oil burning and my 2000 has 1,100 miles on it and runs like new (as it should!)

Cheers,
Dave
 

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JasonK94Z,
One needs to install washers or a KLX spacer Above the needle clip to keep the needle from 'floating-up' too much.
The needle needs to have just a touch of slack with the white plastic retainer held down into place.
Too much slack in the needle fitment causes a rich condition every time the throttle is decreased, at least for a moment.
Yep; sorry I was referring to using washers to "split the needle position" by installing them under the clip. The KLX kit comes with the appropriate brass spacer for the top....don't remember on the DJ needle, it's been too long.


Dave
 

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T...I'm guessing the 42 pilot is ok here as well? Seems to run and start better with it...
The jury is out on the #42 pilot, with a massive 'it depends'.

I believe (which means 'it is my opinion that...'. My opinion and about two bucks will get you a decent cuppa joe) the #40 pilot can be marginal in some cases. I have found that, with the #40 jet and the aftermarket extended idle adjust screw, I couldn't get a proper idle - 1/4 throttle mixture. Going to the #42 fixed that for me.

Even if you don't need to go that big it seems that there is enough overlap in the adjustment range between the stock jet and the #42 to find a proper idle mixture, so going to a #42 won't automatically make an overly rich mixture.

If it works, fine. If it doesn't, go back.

I will allow that the aftermarket needle seems to be a bit different from the stock needle, but it also makes finding the proper idle mixture quite a bit easier. That said, that's about the only thing it's good for.

Tom
 
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