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2013 Klr650 1993 XR600 1982 XT550
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi! New to the forum and this thumper with only 15k miles. I'm always amazed at how much damage people can do... From bent handlebars and engine guard to stripped subframe bolts and of course no engine oil.
First thing I did when I got this bike was add almost 2quarts of oil... then it fired up and idled great. Cleaned the carb and did the 22c mod then a $32 needle holder that ran away. Changed oil and filter and found this magnetic and non magnetic crud...
PXL_20210307_222703887.jpg PXL_20210312_194853873.jpg


Not good... But still rode about 3 miles on it and heard nothing crazy. Pulled the valve cover and the exhaust cam was toast and the journal was mushrooming...
exhaust cam.jpg PXL_20210325_172119464~2.jpg PXL_20210325_233141764.jpg
Sent some pictures out to EngineDynamics since they are fairly local and I have seen them mentioned around. Hopefully it can be repaired cheaper than trying to get a good used head. Decided to pull the head and jug tonight and more surprises!!
PXL_20210325_233141764.jpg PXL_20210325_232910475.jpg PXL_20210326_001747500.jpg

Was that the thermostat? Thermobob upgrade incoming... Then the particles in the coolant... So odd. Going to pull the clutch cover and check the oil pump, filter screen and water pump and replace related seals and whatnot... Then the cam chain. I was careful during removal and pretty sure I didn't kink it... another $100. At least it will combo well with the Doohickey upgrade. And finally - the stock piston/cylinder are usable. Going to check for out of round and maybe do a hone and rings.
Anyone think I should just spend the extra money now and do the 685 kit now? No idea if it burns oil but I can assume it does.
And! Are the bottom ends on these thumpers pretty solid? There was a good amount of metal in the filter...
Hope I didn't start another project that I won't ever break even on if I decide to sell!
Bought for $700 and already have $300 in maintenance stuff ready to go on it.... and looking like another $1k in top end and doo/thermobob if I go all the way!
-Thanks for reading... Been a while since I shared a project!
 

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IMO, most of what you are seeing in the oil filter pleats is still the Pink & Blue & White & Silver Paint Pen paint from the factory assembly line markers.

It does burn oil!
Otherwise the Exhaust camshaft bearings probably would not be damaged. Unless the oil drain plug has been stripped or damaged. Proper installation of any oversized piston & ring set should fix that. The EM 661, 685 kits are the BEST!! They still require proper installation.

The RH exhaust camshaft bearing is the Absolute last bearing in the entire lubrication system! So it will always fail first.
The Bottom rod bearing is the first bearing in the entire system to receive engine oil and it will probably be the third from last bearing to survive a total loss of engine oil, the crankshaft main bearings will probably survive longer, IMO!
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
IMO, most of what you are seeing in the oil filter pleats is still the Pink & Blue & White & Silver Paint Pen paint from the factory assembly line markers.

It does burn oil!
Otherwise the Exhaust camshaft bearings probably would not be damaged. Unless the oil drain plug has been stripped or damaged. Proper installation of any oversized piston & ring set should fix that. The EM 661, 685 kits are the BEST!! They still require proper installation.

The RH exhaust camshaft bearing is the Absolute last bearing in the entire lubrication system! So it will always fail first.
The Bottom rod bearing is the first bearing in the entire system to receive engine oil and it will probably be the third from last bearing to survive a total loss of engine oil, the crankshaft main bearings will probably survive longer, IMO!
Thanks for your input. I have the factory RM for reference and some experience. What you say makes sense about the bearings and debris. Hopefully will make some progress this week.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Well... got the clutch cover off. Filter screen passage was half full of gunk. Found at least 2 small gear teeth. Hoping they are starter gear teeth... No gears the same size visible yet. Need to check/do the Doo anyway. Have to swing by work and get the right screwdriver for the oil pump. Just want to make sure there isn't any damage while I'm in there!
PXL_20210331_161318681.jpg PXL_20210331_161510125.jpg PXL_20210331_164504750~2.jpg

Also, head going to Engine Dynamics with a $300 estimate for exhaust side repair. Bought the 685 kit and cylinder bore service at Eagle Mike. And I'll probably send the head to EM for valve work as well.
 

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I'll suggest that you need to find out exactly where those gear teeth came from before proceeding with cam bearing, cylinder head & cylinder work.

And I would suggest to have Engine Dynamics do both the cam bearings and valve seat & valve work. Make better sense to me anyways, but after find out about gear teeth!!

You need to get the LH side apart, and be careful to not damage the cam chain while doing that disassembly.

Are you prepared to perform a Total Engine Tear-down & repair the transmission?
 

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Damn a teeth? There are some horizontal wear marks on it so i assume that it was engaging with another gear teeth, lets hope it is from starter gears and not the gearbox.
 

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That looks like a complete tooth, not a broken-off corner. If so, it’s too small to be a transmission gear, so you probably got lucky there. Likely something in the starter drive. All the other metal pieces give me concern too. Check them with a magnet to sort the steel from the aluminum.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
I'll suggest that you need to find out exactly where those gear teeth came from before proceeding with cam bearing, cylinder head & cylinder work.

And I would suggest to have Engine Dynamics do both the cam bearings and valve seat & valve work. Make better sense to me anyways, but after find out about gear teeth!!

You need to get the LH side apart, and be careful to not damage the cam chain while doing that disassembly.

Are you prepared to perform a Total Engine Tear-down & repair the transmission?
Edit: Forgot to mention that I would have let ED do the valve work but they wanted 333+ parts and 74 for bench shimming ... EM does it all for 190 + any parts as far as I can tell.

I've split a case before on my '82 XT550. Even got it together and running for over a year! If those tiny gear teeth were part of the transmission... I would be sad. So small and weak. I'll have to pick up my endoscope from work as well.

I'm changing the cam chain anyways, it has a bent link that binds when flexed... Pretty sure it wasn't from me, but who knows.
Looking at pictures on ebay... I think those teeth might be from the balancer gears? Will get the covers off this weekend.

That looks like a complete tooth, not a broken-off corner. If so, it’s too small to be a transmission gear, so you probably got lucky there. Likely something in the starter drive. All the other metal pieces give me concern too. Check them with a magnet to sort the steel from the aluminum.
Lots of non-magnetic stuff. Just tooth chunks to track down :p Hopefully that accounts for the smaller magnetic stuff that was in the filter. And the cooked exhaust cam damage. At least with both side covers off I should be able to flush out any more chunks. I'm going into the deep end!
 

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If it were me, considering the damage I've seen, I would pull the engine, split the cases and carefully inspect everything.

Jason
 

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Looking at pictures on ebay... I think those teeth might be from the balancer gears? Will get the covers off this weekend.
The engine balancer system uses Roller Chain & Sprockets, not gears.

How do the oil pump drive gears look?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Sooo... Looks like I'm a poop magnet. Oil pump gears are fine. Crankshaft sprocket for the balancer is missing a some metal though. And a timing chain guide. Looks like the Doo might have been done, but the chain is so stretched that the spring is maxed out maybe? Bleh. Looks like the sprocket is part of the crank and not serviceable like on my XR200...

Good news is I get to split the case and make sure it's all good... Yay! 🐸
PXL_20210403_223459799.jpg PXL_20210403_224243745.jpg PXL_20210403_224255220.jpg PXL_20210403_224312289.jpg
 

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In the first pic of the EM Doo-Hickey it appears that the previous "mechanic" had purposely 'Pushed' the EM Doo counter-clockwise to Extend the old fashioned extension spring. Which was the wrong thing to do.
In the second pic with the inner cover removed, we can see that the extension spring is near total coil bind. (ie non-functional)

Believe it or not, with a fully functional EM Doo-Hickey & Torsion Spring installed even on that existing damaged crankshaft sprocket, with a replacement guide and allowed to re-adjust every 3000 miles I'd bet that your engine could exceed 100,000 miles.

No need for a crankshaft replacement. The chain rollers should drive from the very BASE of the crankshaft sprocket teeth, with minimal chain slack.
 

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Man, that sprocket looks awful. I’ll defer to Paul as the guy with the most experience, but if I was going to all the trouble of splitting the cases, I’d want to replace it while I’m in there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I understand what you are saying pdwestman. It's just a little unsettling seeing the tips all knocked off. It probably happened right before the incorrect Doo installation. I guess it would have been jumping around if it could. And the chain was a bit slack as well.

Case splitting looks about the same as the XT550 I did with the addition of all those balance shafts. I'm not as excited today... But I saw the oil pickup design, and there is probably no chance that I got all of the chunks out of the oil pan area. I forgot my scope. Unless I can get a good view to at least make me comfortable, the cases are coming apart in the next few days and I'll grab a used crank off ebay... probably. Thanks all for the input.

Still enjoying this project at least.
 

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but if I was going to all the trouble of splitting the cases, I’d want to replace it while I’m in there.
It was only mentioned in-case the broken gear tooth was found to be from external of the main case.
If one has to go inside the main case, of course one would replace THAT Damaged Crankshaft.


It probably happened right before the incorrect Doo installation.
It probably happened Because of the incorrectly installed & Never re-adjusted Doo!
Which allowed the chain to ride higher & higher towards the tips of the sprocket teeth.

Normally, most chains engage over 1/2 of the total teeth of a drive or driven sprocket. But in this balancer system only about 1/3 of the crankshaft sprocket teeth ever contact the chain at any given time. An overly slack chain, riding high on the tips of the teeth, rather than down at the base of the teeth may only be contacting 1/4 of the total teeth on the sprocket at any given time.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hi again! I wound up not splitting the case. Parts came in and valve job being done locally this week. Exhaust valve seats were pitted a lot...

Wondering though, are the oil control rings normally a snug fit? Took some patience to install the piston in the cylinder.

And the instructions had me put the oil control rings 180 apart over wrist pin but compression rings 90 apart facing the intake valves. Odd but okie.

Don't think I've put this much care into a single piston on any car engine before. Granted the cylinders were never big enough to stick my fist in...

Rambling a bit... 🤐

 

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