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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I can only give you all, my suggestions.
#1,
Like sooo much else about the KLR650, it doesn't seem to care 'in which order'! But it does seem to respond well to Mods.


#2,
Thermo-Bob, Thermo-Bob 2 or Thermo-Bob 3. Or Normk's DIY radiator by-pass system. All with 185-195F. thermostats. Get the Entire engine as warm as you can, as Quick as you can.

#3,
Remove the clutch cover and clean the pre-screen if need be. It has been recommended for longer than I've been on the internet forums. I inspected/cleaned mine (1987) at 64,000+ miles, near nothing in it!

#4,
Had to remove the clutch cover to do #3. May as well do some More, eh!
Lap the Pressure Relief Valve. I didn't want to risk LOW rpm oil VOLUME to ANY where, at ANY rpm.

#5,
Re-spring the Pressure Relief Valve. I did it for 2 reasons. Reduce Possible Max pressure to the crankshaft and to Protect the 0-15 PSI Camshaft Banjo oil pressure gauge installed on my dash.
I'm at 21 PSI. Tom S. and Clark L. are set a 28 psi. Normk may set his a 'little Higher'.
But if one is going to use a low psi camshaft banjo oil pressure gauge, you're going to have to do something!
I had recorded as much as 22 psi on a 68f. day, cold start at 1700 rpm, (at the Camshaft Banjo) with partial mods.

#6,
This is the Biggest One. And you DO NOT have to do it to your Bike, and yet still benefit 90% from ALL of the rest of the mods, IMO only. The one I had not even envisioned, until everything else was done. Thanks to all of YOU.
Modify the Oil Filter Cavity for 100% Oil Filtration! Now that we know that it can be done!!!
('Left Click' on the Hi-Lite. For newbys)
OIL Pressure, How much Ya got?
Install a Motion Pro 'Oil Filter Magnet #11-0064, onto the BACK SIDE of the oil filter! The Front side, will Now be DRY!

#7,
Install a Crankshaft Oil Feed 'Oil Flow Control Orifice', smaller than 3.0mm into the 6 o'clock port of the clutch cover or oil filter cap.
OIL Pressure, How much Ya got? 2nd pic.
I prefer to install into the Clutch Cover. It 'Eliminates' the leakage from between the filter CAP and the Clutch cover. (This is true, whether one does the 100% filtration mod or the 'relief of the Ledge' mod.)
OIL Pressure, How much Ya got? 6th pic. (old 'relief of ledge' mod)

#8,
Replace (#92150-1641) or Enlarge the 1st Oil Pipe Banjo bolt by the starter motor.
2 large, 1/8th inch holes.

#9,
Replace (92150-1641) or Enlarge the Camshaft Oil Feed Banjo Bolt, at the cylinder head.
2 large, 1/8th inch holes.

#10,
Replace (92153-0627) or Enlarge the Transmission oil feed Banjo Bolt, above the engine sprocket. 1, 1/8th inch hole or 2 smaller, #43 holes.

Am I over-looking any thing???

With Epoxy filling of the Original Oil Feed port to the oil filter and the notch in the oil filter cap, curing time and dressing of any excess, plan on taking 2 days!

In "Willy's" original thread of "Oil Pressure, How to make it Better?" (on klr650.net), I suggested that ALL of this could be achieved with ONE drill bit size!
I'll now suggest, that the #43, 2.26mm, 0.089 thousands of an INCH drill bit, might be a reasonable 'Choice'. Provided that we 'double cross-drill' the 1st and Camshaft banjo bolts.

How much will it help? Only time and mileage may tell!
I like Q & A, bring it on. I'll answer the best that I know.

OIL Pressure, How much Ya got?

Camshaft Oil Pressure, 2hr ride data

Laboratory Oil Analysis Thread!

Again, I wish to say, The KLR650 doesn't seem to care in which Order things are IMPROVED!!! It just responds well to "Improvements"!

pdw

p.s.,
Tom S.,
You may add/move this posting to the other 3 related threads (your's and mine) as need be.
 
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Excellent cataloging of modification steps.

Can you summarize the cumulative result of all these mods in operational/maintenance/durability/reliability/performance terms?

That is, what does one "get" for the modifications, compared to stock?

Thanks to you and to Tom Schmitz, for taking us along with you on this most interesting journey where you did boldly go, where no man has gone before.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Excellent cataloging of modification steps.

Can you summarize the cumulative result of all these mods in operational/maintenance/durability/reliability/performance terms?

That is, what does one "get" for the modifications, compared to stock?

Thanks to you and to Tom Schmitz, for taking us along with you on this most interesting journey where you did boldly go, where no man has gone before.
Thanks Damocles.

Hopefully the mods will help reduce oil consumption in units with faulty rings or worn/high mileage rings. But these mods can not stop oil consumption.

With the #8 and #9 mods it will be possible to monitor oil pressure from the camshaft banjo bolt. And if one desires, these 2 can be your only mods. I could have easily listed them as mods #3 and #4.

Fuel mileage seems to improve 5-10%.

Engine oil may stay cleaner longer.
 

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This is very, very helpful, as I have a 99 that's gulping oil at high RPMs. No external leaks apparent. Tried Vegas Romaniac's idea of 20W50, which he used to some success in the dry high heat of Nevada, while I'm dealing with the humid heat of Louisiana. No joy. BUT, since I've had my Cockroach since only June, and have not done bike maintenance ever (comfortable with tools and wrenching, but no expert on any gas engine), I'm struggling to understand what some of these mean. there is a video for lapping oil pressure relief valves, ironically from one of the contributors of all this oil consumption info, Tom Schmitz. But I'm not allowed to post the link until I make 15 or more posts. :/
 

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Discussion Starter #5
peacefuljeff,
Tom Schmitz is sort of following my lead, sort of like you are.

I've not purchased a camera, nor learned to post photos or videos. I've relied on friends, including Tom to post the pics of my project.
And I'd liked to thank them all again. Nat S., Clark L. and Tom S. thanks again.

As to lapping the PRV, I used a piece of rubber fuel line for a lap-stick. No need to solder a ball to a copper pipe. Sorry, no pic.

May I suggest you try mods 7, 8, 9 and 10. See if or how much they help. You can still do the rest later. And these 4 are easily 'reversible', if desired. Refer to #1!
 

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peacefuljeff,

Yeah, heavier oil isn't going to do much for you if you have an oil burner.

To recap a bit, the theory that Paul is working on is that much of the oil burning is because there is simply too much oil thrown up on the cylinder walls for the piston's rings to deal with. Since the KLR's bottom end is an open rolling element bearing (much like a two-stroke as opposed to a pressurized plain bearing like in a car's engine) it can survive with very little oil.

Mods 7, 8, 9 and 10 work to reduce the amount of oil delivered to the underside of the piston by directing it to the cams and the transmission and by reducing the flow to the crankshaft.

The PRV is a ball valve where a ball bearing, under spring pressure, is sitting on a seat. It is designed to pop at about 70psi. This is a valve that is used in a large number of Kawasakis and has been in use for decades. By itself, it ain't a bad deal even with the 70psi pop-off, but it is a pretty leaky valve; the manufacturing of the seat hasn't had a lot of attention paid to it. The reason for lapping it is to reduce that leakage and the idea is that it is foolish to waste oil on a leak. It falls in the category of 'good thing to do'. The pump delivers a goodly amount of oil, so wasting some ain't the end of the world, but I think that lapping the thing is pretty easy and there's no reason to shy away from it.

As Paul says, installing the larger banjo bolts and the oil control orifice to the crank will get you 90% of the benefits that doing all the mods will. These are the important ones.

The banjo bolts are pretty easy, though you will have to remove the exhaust header and the starter motor to get at the first banjo (#8 mod).

In #7 Paul refers to the '100% filtration' idea (Mod #6), which is a mod to the cover. The way the cover and cap is designed it is possible for some of the oil to go directly out to the engine without being filtered. That leaky path can also undermine efforts to control the amount of oil going to the crank if you choose to put the control orifice in the cap. This falls into the 'nice to have' category, too.

This video explains what's involved in that mod and also talks about installing the crank oil control orifice.


I have a 2009 that was fixed by Kawasaki for oil burning, which lasted for a while, but it is back to its old ways. I don't have the miles or time on these mods that Paul does but early indications are that my oil consumption is reduced, and perhaps quite dramatically.

Tom
 

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The banjo bolts are easy to cross drill to a larger size by just grabbing two flats of the head in a vise and using a hand held power drill. The side which is already drilled will self pilot (drill bit will follow the hole) and line up the other side.

I think Paul may have used different banjo bolts having larger holes and cross drilled already but he can afford the cost out of the money he's saved from not having a camera or posting photos. ;-)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
The banjo bolts are easy to cross drill to a larger size by just grabbing two flats of the head in a vise and using a hand held power drill. The side which is already drilled will self pilot (drill bit will follow the hole) and line up the other side.

I think Paul may have used different banjo bolts having larger holes and cross drilled already but he can afford the cost out of the money he's saved from not having a camera or posting photos. ;-)
If one does enlarge the existing banjo bolts by drilling, be very certain to de-burr the Center Hole. Also de-burr the outside so the copper gasket can slide on properly.

I used the KLX and KLF banjo bolts so I could revert to standard if desired!
 

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I think the KLX and KLF bolts are better. They are nicely chamfered at the cross hole.

There are scads of 600 and 650 bolts in the Shop of Horrors. Stop by if you want some, anybody.

Those holes are so tiny that they are best described as a 'bolt with a leak'.

Tom
 
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You can crazy glue the ball to an appropriately sized bolt to make a secure lapping tool. Used to do it all the time when I was a industrial valve technician.
Regards....just jeff
 

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23.795 DELO 400 15W40 9/16/14? Oil change date?
I suffer from CRS* and put labels on the bike that remind me of when I changed consumables, with mileage and date.

Tom

*Can't Remember Shit
 
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How many times are you going to mention this.......before I remember?
(Self face palm)

Thanks again for re-reminding me. That's a trick which I want to remember as have used rubber hose with the problem of the ball popping out, especially where there is a recessed seat.

Funny how having been trained in one way seems to keep one from using a better/alternative technique when it is encountered. Same with cotter pin pullers. I sold hundreds of the spiral hook cotter pin tools when was in the tool business but have never used one to pull a cotter pin. I had one in my tools for a long time but never used it because habit made me reach for side cutters and never thought of the other tool.





You can crazy glue the ball to an appropriately sized bolt to make a secure lapping tool. Used to do it all the time when I was a industrial valve technician.
Regards....just jeff
 

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Discussion Starter #14
23.795 DELO 400 15W40 9/16/14? Oil change date?
peacefuljeff,
I believe that Tom does have 2 or 3 clutch covers in his 'little shop of horrors' with different modifications.

Also I have been wanting to ask if your bike is fitted with a Thermo-Bob or other radiator by-pass? I do believe in the importance of my #2 suggestion, for numerous reasons.
But I also realize a radiator by-pass is more expensive than my mods #7, 8, 9 and 10 complete with new gaskets. (Note, I annealed and reused the oil banjo gaskets. But always use a New exhaust header gasket.)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
You can crazy glue the ball to an appropriately sized bolt to make a secure lapping tool. Used to do it all the time when I was a industrial valve technician.
Regards....just jeff
The advantage to my use of rubber fuel line as a lap-stick in this application, is the fuel line will Rotate the lapping ball in an Omni-directional orbit, instead of wearing a groove into the ball.
Able to use an electric drill to do the lapping with light pressure, drill motor Up-side down.
An un-grooved ball is many times re-useable, even with different grades of compound!

Of course many KLR riders may only do this mod #4 Once!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
ROFL! Good one! Since I don't want to 'cloud up' this important issue, I'm going to delete my question in a few days. Thanks!
peacefuljeff,
Please DO NOT Delete.
 

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PDWestman: "I have been wanting to ask if your bike is fitted with a Thermo-Bob or other radiator by-pass? I do believe in the importance of my #2 suggestion, for numerous reasons."

No bypass yet, 33K on the odometerof my 1999. But when I get around to it, I'll be doing Norm's DIY bypass, as it will teach me more (hopefully) and certainly increase my mod skills beyond their current very limited comfort zone.

Not sure why you don't want me to delete a question I'm sure is of no relevance to anyone. I was up to about page 8 of the original oil thread, plowing through all the messages in hopes of learning how to fix my oil consumption issue when you posted this much needed and appreciated synopsis. So I'm acutely aware of messages and comments on that thread that were fun at the time, but didn't add to furthering the exploration of oil consumption understanding. But I'll refrain from deleting for now.
 

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Your video is INVALUABLE! I could never have visualized all that from any written description, regardless of how detailed. Even so, I'm definitely not going to be drilling into my case until after I've tried everything else with no or not enough effect. Pucker factor definitely too high for my limited skills!
 

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...Not sure why you don't want me to delete a question I'm sure is of no relevance to anyone. .... So I'm acutely aware of messages and comments on that thread that were fun at the time, but didn't add to furthering the exploration of oil consumption understanding...
a) You asked a question that someone else might wonder about, so it has value.

b) This place is like sitting around a campfire with other people who have the same interests. The discussion takes twists and turns and it all promotes a good feeling. It's just how we roll.

c) Thread-jacking is looked upon as an art form here. On some forums they get real indignant about it. Not here.

We got one guy here who can jack a thread slicker'n The Artful Dodger or Fagin can pick a pocket.

"I've been known to go off the rails a time or two myself", Tom said drunkenly...

Tom

p.s. Truth be told, we have gone back and cleaned up threads when things got too far astray, but it was mutually agreed upon. Still, we would never admonish anyone for asking a question that might be seen as a wee bit off topic or jacking a thread a bit. They are here, they are participating, and we really appreciate that.
 
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