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I double checked my ring gaps but not the bore -as Jason mentioned, it should have been bored with a torque plate so there is no way to check unless you have one.

Dave
 

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2013 KLR 650/692, 2017 HD Electraglide Ultra
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Measured with a feeler gauge about 1/4” above the bottom of the skirt. Eagle Mike said to expect about that. I Sent the cylinder and head to EM for the machine work. This is a JE forged piston, and I expect EM knows what clearances to make for this piston. The rings gaps were at or near the tight end of the spec.
 

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Yes, that's the same story/legend/lore I've heard over the years.

Jason
I 2nd this. I was in EM's shop today. He confirmed this in our discussion.

Also, what's your consensus on the install and performance of your 692 upgrade? I dropped mine off for the 692 also. 2 weeks till it's shipped back to me.
 

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Legend has it: The dynamic weight balance calculus of KLR engines began with the KLR 600's piston weight; when the heavier KLR 650 piston entered the mix, no compensating changes were made reflecting the difference in reciprocating weight. Thus, with KLR 650s (stock), there's a whole lot of [needless] shakin' goin' on (apologies to Jerry Lee Lewis). Further legend, the 685 piston weighs less than the stock KLR 650 piston; thus approaching the KLR 600 piston's weight, providing smoother running, less vibration, approaching the dynamic balance model of the long now-departed KLR 600, for which the initial balance calculations (yet unchanged) were made.

True? False? Undetermined?

I don't know! :D
The KLR600 counterweights are not the same as the KLR650 counterweights, I was shocked to discover. Shocked to the core. Mortified.

I may become motivated to dig around in the Shed of Horrors to see if I can find a full set to weigh and photograph. At the very least, I will weigh and photograph the one example I found.
 
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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
I 2nd this. I was in EM's shop today. He confirmed this in our discussion.

Also, what's your consensus on the install and performance of your 692 upgrade? I dropped mine off for the 692 also. 2 weeks till it's shipped back to me.
Wow, the performance increase is outstanding! Even the exhaust note is more robust! I smile every time I'm on the bike!

Word of caution: make sure you clean and re-clean the cylinder after you receive it from EM. There was a considerable amount of honing dust embedded in the crosshatch pattern in my cylinder. I used hot soapy water followed by wiping the bore several times with a clean rag and ATF. After each ATF cleaning I would check progress by wiping with a white paper towel. I repeated the the ATF wiping and paper towel check until the paper towel remained totally white after wiping. This process was repeated some ten or so times before it produced a clean bore.

Jason
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
The KLR600 counterweights are not the same as the KLR650 counterweights, I was shocked to discover. Shocked to the core. Mortified.

I may become motivated to dig around in the Shed of Horrors to see if I can find a full set to weigh and photograph. At the very least, I will weigh and photograph the one example I found.
As you will recall, one approach I mentioned on this forum to reduce vibration was to alter the weight of the counterbalancer, assuming the 650 balancer required more weight. But I had no idea how much weight to add, so I opted for the 692 kit. But I still think there is more that could be done to minimize vibration. I look forward to your findings of the two counterbalancers.

Jason
 

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The KLR600 counterweights are not the same as the KLR650 counterweights, I was shocked to discover. Shocked to the core. Mortified.

I may become motivated to dig around in the Shed of Horrors to see if I can find a full set to weigh and photograph. At the very least, I will weigh and photograph the one example I found.
interesting, it will be enlightening to see what you come up with. I wouldn't have guessed that they were different since obviously the 650 counterweights are too light otherwise we wouldn't see the lessening of vibration with the lighter piston that we experience. Kawasaki not bothering to change the counterweights from the 600 to 650 made some sense; for them to have made new ones that were just wrong......is certainly a bit of a head-scratcher.

Dave
 

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It is cold and wet and I don't feel much like investing in this, so here are the two pieces I had in the shop. I may look for more pieces later, perhaps in the summer when the flowers have bloomed and the butterflies are out and the sun is shining and the surf is up.
28290
 
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The total weight may be more on the LH 650 weight, but its centrifugal force may not actually be more, due to thickness differences in its outer perimeter. Hummm.

But I have always found each newer generation to be successively smoother than the past.
1987 / 1996 / 2008 / 201? (can't remember, '11 or possibly '12)
Provided that the doo-hickey spring is Functional & the Locking bolt is Snugged!

I always figured that Tom would go surfing when the 'surf was up', like everybody else in Cali. ;)
 

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In my head, what I want to do is assemble those weights into a case and do a torque test.

In my body, what I want to do is let somebody else do it.

There is a whole raft of possibilities, not the least of which was that the redesign of the weight portion was driven by the redesign of the spline portion. That is, making it a one-piece design made it necessary to move metal to maintain the same balance points. Or the redesign gave them an opportunity to change the counterweights' design and balance and they took advantage of that opportunity. Who knows? I don't. But they are different.
 
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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
I noticed that there are no springs in the 650 counter balancer. I believe that the that springs in the 600 counter balancer serve the same purpose as springs in a dry clutch disc: to dampen and smooth out sudden acceleration and to to absorb fluctuations in engine RPM. So, how does the 650 counter balancer getaway without the springs? Perhaps the redistribution of mass was an attempt to compensate for the absence of springs in the 650 balancer. But this weight distribution was only partially successful. And maybe that's why the 650 engine seems to vibrate more than the 600?

Jason
 

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The spline is suspended "Isolastically" ;^) in the counterweight.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 · (Edited)
The spline is suspended "Isolastically" ;^) in the counterweight.
So the rubber cushions between the spline sleeve and weighted mass take the place of the steel springs.

I suppose it was less expensive to use rubber springs instead of steel springs. I tend to think that the elastomeric springs would be as effective as steel, but perhaps not, hence the greater vibration in the 650 compared to the 600 engine? Or, perhaps we'll chalk this mystery up as one of those vageries of the motorcycle engine world.

Jason
 

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I noticed that there are no springs in the 650 counter balancer.
IIRC, the spring damped balancer sprockets were used from 1987 thru 1995 models. As was the thin, stamped sheet metal, crimpable Doo-Hickey.
 
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@Norton 850, the early ones would tend to come apart, exhibiting non-graceful degradation. Owners of the pre-'96 bikes are advised to replace them with the new-design bits.

@foo has a good picture of one that had a broken spring;
Yes, this is very much a recommended upgrade.

I swapped the original pieces out for those from a 2002 that I had bought off of ebay. And was very glad I did -because even on a well maintained, low mileage 1995 KLR (< 10k mi), one of the springs had already sh!t the bed.
 

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The weight difference in the counter weights does not tell the whole story. It is the difference in the weight relative to the distance from the center of the spline shaft. Does that make since?
 

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Wow, the performance increase is outstanding! Even the exhaust note is more robust! I smile every time I'm on the bike!

Word of caution: make sure you clean and re-clean the cylinder after you receive it from EM. There was a considerable amount of honing dust embedded in the crosshatch pattern in my cylinder. I used hot soapy water followed by wiping the bore several times with a clean rag and ATF. After each ATF cleaning I would check progress by wiping with a white paper towel. I repeated the the ATF wiping and paper towel check until the paper towel remained totally white after wiping. This process was repeated some ten or so times before it produced a clean bore.

Jason
Wow, the performance increase is outstanding! Even the exhaust note is more robust! I smile every time I'm on the bike!

Word of caution: make sure you clean and re-clean the cylinder after you receive it from EM. There was a considerable amount of honing dust embedded in the crosshatch pattern in my cylinder. I used hot soapy water followed by wiping the bore several times with a clean rag and ATF. After each ATF cleaning I would check progress by wiping with a white paper towel. I repeated the the ATF wiping and paper towel check until the paper towel remained totally white after wiping. This process was repeated some ten or so times before it produced a clean bore.

Jason
Your response simply makes my heart a flutter! I miss my steed. It's been to long time since she's taken me for a ride.

Just did the doo today. No damage, spring was detached but in tact.

At 18,000 miles she's getting everything but a boob job. It'll be lovely!
 
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