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Discussion Starter #21
- there is oil burning and there is oil burning; Paul's mods can help the usual (moderate) high rpm burn that most/all KLR's have but can't fix a bad bore/rings - which is the usual cause for severe oil burning. Fix is a 685 or other BB kit.

- while I will defer to Tom and Paul on the intricacies of the KLR oiling system, I will point out that thousands of KLR engines/heads have been destroyed by low oil levels.......and many/most of them had a LOT more than 1/2 quart in them. I'd suggest keeping the oil level at the VERY top of the sight glass and considering half way down LOW. check before every ride and at every fuel stop. Regardless of how cheap oil may be, there is no way I could live with oil consumption anywhere near the 1 quart/1000 mi level that is considered "normal" by Kawi; that kind of consumption (or worse) means something isn't right and I don't like things that aren't right! ;-)

- Personally, I'd do the Engine Dynamics head rebuild and EM's 685 kit. ......I'm still a little mystified about this "seizing" issue and there is a concern that you still have some problem after doing the 685 and head....
Yea, seems as though I got one of them OIL BURNING KLR's. If the ED rebuild and EM 685 kit come in at a reasonable cost compared to a second-hand head, I will likely try and go that route to save myself the constant fear of engine failure I'd likely have every ride from here on out. But will definitely be checking oil religiously from now on!

Are you saying you'd have concern of oil burning even with the rebuilt head and 685 kit? Or that running the bike on 1/4 qt of oil may have done more damage beyond the scared/seized cams? Because while I have the engine already in the process of being torn down, I definitely want to check any other possible problems that might have come from the oil starvation.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
They can also refresh your head for you with new valve stem seals, valve guides, and cut new valve seats, grind the valves, and tip them for 270 shims. You should get the price for that as well.
Oh also, when I was removing the left cam caps, they were a beast to remove, mainly because it appeared like the cams had a lot of upward pressure on them and was seemingly binding them up. And now that all the caps are removed, the cams seem to be popped up on the right-hand side. Maybe this is normal, or maybe its because the bearings are shot? Just trying be be really thorough with my inspection and continued understanding of the top end.

Also also, should I just go ahead and remove the head completely at this point, since it's either getting rebuilt or replaced? and is there anything I should check for in the lower end once the head is removed? Idk if the Doo has been changed on this KLR, but maybe that's worth looking at and upgrading at this stage too? Kill the proverbial two birds.
 

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Oh also, when I was removing the left cam caps, they were a beast to remove, mainly because it appeared like the cams had a lot of upward pressure on them and was seemingly binding them up. And now that all the caps are removed, the cams seem to be popped up on the right-hand side. Maybe this is normal, or maybe its because the bearings are shot? Just trying be be really thorough with my inspection and continued understanding of the top end.

I think that you did Not remove the end cap and SPRING from the cam chain Tensioner before you started disassembly. That is what would be pulling the sprockets down & RH ends up.

Also also, should I just go ahead and remove the head completely at this point, since it's either getting rebuilt or replaced? and is there anything I should check for in the lower end once the head is removed? Idk if the Doo has been changed on this KLR, but maybe that's worth looking at and upgrading at this stage too? Kill the proverbial two birds.
Be Certain to Expand the quote, as I typed in the middle of it.

I think Engine Dynamics will also do complete cylinder head repair, ie valve seat grinding/lapping, valve replacement, valve seals. Possibly even initial valve shim clearancing, if all parts and both cams are sent.
I also suggest that you ought to ask Engine Dynamics if they can supply & fit the Eagle Mike 685 piston kit into your cylinder? Or do they use the Schnitz 685 kit. Both good kits.
 
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Discussion Starter #24
Be Certain to Expand the quote, as I typed in the middle of it.

I think Engine Dynamics will also do complete cylinder head repair, ie valve seat grinding/lapping, valve replacement, valve seals. Possibly even initial valve shim clearancing, if all parts and both cams are sent.
I also suggest that you ought to ask Engine Dynamics if they can supply & fit the Eagle Mike 685 piston kit into your cylinder? Or do they use the Schnitz 685 kit. Both good kits.
Yep, that was it. I just took the cam chain guard off and cams out, so just the tension from the cam chain. I'm learning! haha. Appreciate the clarification!

The consensus seems to be the Engine Dynamics/685 route, especially if that will get me to reduce oil consumption. And then, either way, I may pay you a visit at Lander Marine to look into the oil system mods, since I live just 3 hours north, and I might as well get her using oil as efficiently as possible!
 

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samuel said:
Every. Single. Time.
And at every stop on road trips. Stop for gas, stop for lunch, stop to pee ... check the danged oil.
 

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The consensus seems to be the Engine Dynamics/685 route, especially if that will get me to reduce oil consumption. And then, either way, I may pay you a visit at Lander Marine to look into the oil system mods, since I live just 3 hours north, and I might as well get her using oil as efficiently as possible!
You can modify the 3 banjo bolts by drilling while the cylinder & head are away for 685 & cam bearing repair. Or I can sell you KLX/KLF oem parts.
I can thread the oil filter cap & install the brass oil control orifice.

If the clutch cover is removed to clean the pre-screen to the oil pump, even the 100% oil filtration mod could be done to the oil filter cavity. And install the oil control orifice into the clutch cover 6:00 port.

I need to ask you to LOOK at the Underside of your air filter box, above & ahead of the muffler joint for a melted hole into the clean side of the air box, which could allow dust entry, which can also cause massive oil consumption.
I just pointed out a melt hole to another new KLR customer today on his 1989, which soon needs a new transmission output shaft.
 
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Discussion Starter #27
You can modify the 3 banjo bolts by drilling while the cylinder & head are away for 685 & cam bearing repair. Or I can sell you KLX/KLF oem parts.
I can thread the oil filter cap & install the brass oil control orifice.

If the clutch cover is removed to clean the pre-screen to the oil pump, even the 100% oil filtration mod could be done to the oil filter cavity. And install the oil control orifice into the clutch cover 6:00 port.

I need to ask you to LOOK at the Underside of your air filter box, above & ahead of the muffler joint for a melted hole into the clean side of the air box, which could allow dust entry, which can also cause massive oil consumption.
I just pointed out a melt hole to another new KLR customer today on his 1989, which soon needs a new transmission output shaft.
Ah awesome! I may message you to get a possible quote on that! This week I am trying to gather and compare all my repair/replacement options and mods to see what all fits into my budget.
I will definitely look at the air box. I know it’s got an after market snap-on one, so don’t know if that changes things. Tomorrow is the start of my 16hr day work week, so it may take me a few days to make any more headway on the inspection.
 

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@TaylorW, thanks for the pictures of the other cam caps. That is pretty much what I expected to see, based upon your description of doodling along.

I have always wanted to be the first one to arrive at each and every oil starvation, as I'd like to ask what the conditions were at the time of seizure regarding engine output. Then I'd like to pop the valve cover and see if I can get a torque reading on the exhaust cam to see if there really is any correlation between engine power at the time of seizure and the resulting carnage.

It's a bit hard to ask the person who's looking at a grenaded motor to do your weird science for you...
 
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Discussion Starter #29
@TaylorW, thanks for the pictures of the other cam caps. That is pretty much what I expected to see, based upon your description of doodling along.

I have always wanted to be the first one to arrive at each and every oil starvation, as I'd like to ask what the conditions were at the time of seizure regarding engine output. Then I'd like to pop the valve cover and see if I can get a torque reading on the exhaust cam to see if there really is any correlation between engine power at the time of seizure and the resulting carnage.

It's a bit hard to ask the person who's looking at a grenaded motor to do your weird science for you...
hey, if my misfortune can help further the research and understanding of this long-standing issue, I’m all for it! Need any other data? heart rate spike at time of engine KABOOM? Number of curse words uttered during the mile walk back home? Hours of sleep lost to kicking myself for running an engine dry? Haha.

I do very much appreciate your fast and concise responses from the onset! I can always stomach a problem better when I actually know what the problem is. So even though I know the little oil eater is still weeks and hundreds of dollars away from running again, at least now I’m sleeping instead of muttering to myself. 🤪
 

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Are you saying you'd have concern of oil burning even with the rebuilt head and 685 kit? Or that running the bike on 1/4 qt of oil may have done more damage beyond the scared/seized cams? Because while I have the engine already in the process of being torn down, I definitely want to check any other possible problems that might have come from the oil starvation.
No, the 685 should take care of the oil burn and ED will have your head fixed up like new. I don't think any other damage would have occurred because the front exhaust cam is the first thing to go and it looks like that's as far as it got. the upper rear balancer bearing is splash lubed and some have opined that it's premature failure is do to low oil levels (and some refute that suggestion) but I'd guess that assuming it's true, it would take far more time to hurt it than the cam bores.

I remain a bit concerned over this whole seizing issue because that shouldn't have happened due to the low oil level/cam bore damage which makes one worry that there is an additional problem...

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #32
I remain a bit concerned over this whole seizing issue because that shouldn't have happened due to the low oil level/cam bore damage which makes one worry that there is an additional problem...
ah okay. Having never experienced this sort of engine failure before, I guess I’m unsure what the “norm” is. Sounds as though at least one other fella had a near identical experience and is on year 10 post fix without other problems arising. But I suppose every “seized” engine is different and may have been caused by many things, possibly at the same time.
Idk if this rules anything out, but after the engine died, I was on a hill and had to roll another 1/4 mile to a spot where I could safely get off the road, and as I coasted I shifted through gears (never let the clutch out to try and actually engage).
While the head is off, I assume it would be a good idea to try and check the main rod/bearing if thats not too much major hassle. Beyond that, I will take a look at the doohickey to see its condition. Otherwise I guess it will be a “cross my fingers and pray” that once everything else is repaired and reassembled the engine does what it’s supposed to 😬
 

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ah okay. Having never experienced this sort of engine failure before, I guess I’m unsure what the “norm” is. Sounds as though at least one other fella had a near identical experience and is on year 10 post fix without other problems arising. But I suppose every “seized” engine is different and may have been caused by many things, possibly at the same time.
Idk if this rules anything out, but after the engine died, I was on a hill and had to roll another 1/4 mile to a spot where I could safely get off the road, and as I coasted I shifted through gears (never let the clutch out to try and actually engage).
While the head is off, I assume it would be a good idea to try and check the main rod/bearing if thats not too much major hassle. Beyond that, I will take a look at the doohickey to see its condition. Otherwise I guess it will be a “cross my fingers and pray” that once everything else is repaired and reassembled the engine does what it’s supposed to 😬
All you can really do is to take a good look around, you've checked the oil, check the oil screen as well.....not sure if you have a magnetic drain plug. Anyhow, if everything looks normal then I'd proceed with the rest of the work.

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #34
All you can really do is to take a good look around, you've checked the oil, check the oil screen as well.....not sure if you have a magnetic drain plug. Anyhow, if everything looks normal then I'd proceed with the rest of the work.
yes yes, I know I will checking the oil screen and flushing the lower case to make sure I get out any little metal demons that may want to cause further damage. Guess now’s a good time to replace the oil filter too, and maybe grab a magnetic drain plug (believe the one in there is stock).
 

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Discussion Starter #35
oh, while I was taking the cylinder head cover off, I did notice this wire (forget the name of it) that was plugged in next to the spark plug, had melted to the oil tube. looks Like it only melted through the sheath, and not the actual wire insulation. Guessing that couldve been caused by the minimal amount of oil getting super hot.
26302
 

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Discussion Starter #36
It's a bit hard to ask the person who's looking at a grenaded motor to do your weird science for you...
don’t know if this helps with your research, but one of the oil holes (at least I think that’s what it is) in the cam was pretty much clogged with aluminum shavings. Would that be from the bearings, or the right-hand exhaust cap gauging?
26303
 

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I remain a bit concerned over this whole seizing issue because that shouldn't have happened due to the low oil level/cam bore damage which makes one worry that there is an additional problem...

Dave
Based on my experience I think the problem the OP had locking the motor up was likely not seizing of a piston in the bore, rather the jamming of the cam in its journals. That's what happened in mine. So I don't think there is an additional problem to worry about.

OP thanks for keeping us updated on your plans for the rebuild

Sent from my moto g(8) plus using Tapatalk
 

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don’t know if this helps with your research, but one of the oil holes (at least I think that’s what it is) in the cam was pretty much clogged with aluminum shavings. Would that be from the bearings, or the right-hand exhaust cap gauging?
View attachment 26303
That appears to be the RH INTAKE camshaft bearing. No decompressor mechanism on its end.

You got lucky that the damage is not worse.

The melted sheath on the Yellow temp sender wire suggests that possibly this bike has had or does also have a COOLANT Issue also. That air injection pipe really shouldn't have gotten that hot from an oil issue by itself, imo.
 
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Blasphemy I know but Sheesh I'm glad I got rid of my several KLR'S and bought a DR.


 

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This should put a real scare into anyone looking to purchase a used KLR if you have to check the oil every few hours. It seems one could have a potentially souring motor and not even know it until a few hundred miles down the road.
 
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