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Discussion Starter #81
@TaylorW, let's hope @pdwestman is correct and the pin sheared. There is less likelihood of damage to the cam chain sprocket on the crank, the cam sprockets, and the cam chain itself. You should have a look-see to see what's going on there. I'm not sure what part of the cam train is supposed to be sacrificial in the event of a 'negative clearance event'; that is, if the pin is supposed to shear or if the cam chain tensioner is supposed to blow. I don't think that KHI planned for an exhaust cam siezure, but effectively it acts similarly to a negative clearance event.
Just so it's clear, this locator pin we are discusing, is it down on the bottom cam chain sprocket, where the cam chain balancer, doohickey, and all that jazz are, or on the actual cam itself? Because I sent the cams off with the head for fixing, so I don't have access to them right now, and wondering if I should be asking Engine Dynamics to check over the cams themselves if we are talking about them.

I think I'll just go ahead and order the Eagle Mike doo kit as it is. I've got a wedding in week, so won't have much time to get further on the tear down/inspection until after that anyways, so might as well get some things shipped so I can get cracking right after the matrimonial affairs are over. I do think I've spent more time researching and working on this engine than I have wedding planning. At least she knows now. :ROFLMAO:
 

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Just so it's clear, this locator pin we are discusing, is it down on the bottom cam chain sprocket, where the cam chain balancer, doohickey, and all that jazz are, or on the actual cam itself?
No.
The locator pin to align the cam sprocket onto the camshaft. #610 in this parts screen.

Full part # 610A0410.
 

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Discussion Starter #83
No.
The locator pin to align the cam sprocket onto the camshaft. #610 in this parts screen.

Full part # 610A0410.
Ah thank you! I love diagrams. Sorry, I tend to be more visual. All these parts sound the same when you're just getting into engine work. Haha. So then, since the cams are currently in a box taped like Fort Knox somewhere between Wyoming and California, I guess I should ask Engine Dynamics to see if they would be willing to take a look at the cam. Sounds like that camshaft bolt would be a doozy to get off anyways and they would likely have better luck at removing it than myself anyways!

On another related note, over on this forum (https://www.klr650.net/forums/archive/index.php?t-137787.html) it seems like a different fella ran into the same fate with his '08 and there is talk on there of cutting the KACR clean off. If this is something totally not related or advised, let me know, but just thought I'd bring it up, seeing as a couple people in that other forum brought it up in relation with this whole cam bearing seizure problem.
 

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On another related note, over on this forum (https://www.klr650.net/forums/archive/index.php?t-137787.html) it seems like a different fella ran into the same fate with his '08 and there is talk on there of cutting the KACR clean off. If this is something totally not related or advised, let me know, but just thought I'd bring it up, seeing as a couple people in that other forum brought it up in relation with this whole cam bearing seizure problem.
Looks like Glenn has re-instated his subscription only access! Been a couple weeks since I'd been there.

Bad exhaust camshaft bearings can allow the KACR to contact and break the cylinder head. I've never seen pics of a GOOD exhaust cam bearing and a destroyed KACR & Head.

The KACR allows use of smaller, lighter electric starter gear train and sprag clutch on the backside of the flywheel.
The removal of the KACR will accelerate the wear of the 3 expensive starter sprag clutch components.
When the starter clutch components start to fail its make REALLY UGLY Noises for a while before it fails completely.
 
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Discussion Starter #85
The KACR allows use of smaller, lighter electric starter gear train and sprag clutch on the backside of the flywheel.
The removal of the KACR will accelerate the wear of the 3 expensive starter sprag clutch components.
When the starter clutch components start to fail its make REALLY UGLY Noises for a while before it fails completely.
sounds like a big cup of “nope”. It did seem like a pretty brutal “fix” they were suggesting. So I’ll shoot Engine Dynamics an email to see if they’d be willing to have a go at the cam shaft bolt to give a look at the locator pin. 👌🏻
 

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Discussion Starter #86
Okay, while I wait for things to get done, shipped, etc, I want to get about everything else done I can. I realized I never actually pulled the right side cover and checked the oil screen, so that's on the top of my list for my next day off. The next, next day off will be taking the left side cover off, as long as I get that darned special rotor tool. Is it wise to tear down the carb and do a thorough cleaning? There was a bit of dirt that got in the main passage when I pulled it from the bike. I've done a carb rebuild on my last bike and know I really don't like it. But is it safe to just spray that main passage with carb cleaner and call it good? I'm honestly more worried about messing the carb up more by tearing it down and putting it back together wrong. I was always the kid who put the lego set together and had extra pieces. :censored:
 

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Discussion Starter #87
Little update for ya lads. Engine Dynamics did their magic and got everything squared away. Camshaft did indeed have a sheared locator pin, which they fixed on the house!

total cost of the repair, not including shipping, or price of the Schnitz piston kit was $820. When including piston kit and shipping were sitting right around $1,200, which is pretty spot on what I guesstimated at the onset of the ordeal.

while the parts are in transit back to me I still need to flush the crankcase, so if anyone has some solid info on what that process looks like, it would be much appreciated! I know kerosene is involved, but that’s about it.
 

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Lots of elbow grease. And compressed air. Get small brushes to get into all the nooks and crannies. I wouldn’t worry too much about the bottom end of the crankcase because any small bits left there will get captured by the oil filter, but the oil passages from the oil filter must be absolutely clean.
 

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Did anyone mention what engine dynamics charges to do the exhaust cam bearings, apologies if i missed it
 

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Discussion Starter #90
Lots of elbow grease. And compressed air. Get small brushes to get into all the nooks and crannies. I wouldn’t worry too much about the bottom end of the crankcase because any small bits left there will get captured by the oil filter, but the oil passages from the oil filter must be absolutely clean.
I assume for that, something like carb cleaner would work? And still am thinking of flushing the bottom end just to ensure no dirt/grime or bits of anything that might’ve fallen in there during the tear down get cleaned out. Can I just put the oil drain plug back in, fill the crankcase with kerosene, let it sit, then drain it and allow a day or so to make sure all the kerosene evaporates?
 

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Discussion Starter #91
Did anyone mention what engine dynamics charges to do the exhaust bearings, apologies if i missed it
They charge “$250.00 plus 2 bushings used in the repair at $25.00 each” for a single cam journal/bearing repair.
 

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They charge “$250.00 plus 2 bushings used in the repair at $25.00 each” for a single cam journal/bearing repair.
i figured it'd be pricey, but a different head is really expensive, even on eBay
 

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Discussion Starter #93
Progress! finally had time to pull the right case cover and get a look at the oil screen, and its pretty much empty, so that’s good news!
27126

Got the case back together, the carb cleaned up a bit, and all gasket surfaces cleaned, so next day off it’s engine re-assembly time!
 

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Discussion Starter #94
Okay, so I’ve got the engine put back together (took a bit because I guess two of the locating dowels got lost in transit and had to wait for them to ship). Today I was getting the head on and timing the cams when I ran into a perplexing issue. After getting the cams timed, I went to turn over the engine with the crankshaft bolt, but it would “seize“ at a certain point. After taking everything apart and checking things one by one, redoing the cam timing a total of 4 times (🤪), I found that the KLAC seemed to be jammed and this (pointing to it with red arrow):
27373

was not compressing in when it was contacting the shim/valve lifter. After messing with it a bit, I got it to “unstick” and was able to turn the engine over smoothly numerous times. I recall this part being noted in multiple other related forum posts as shattering and causing a whole lot of carnage such as...
27374

so from the perspective of those who know klr’s better, could this have just been “sticking” because it was cleaned and simply not lubricated for a few months now, or is it an omen of more top end destruction in the next few hundred miles? As much as I want this engine together, I don’t want to look past glaring problems...but I also know it means buying a new exhaust cam...or going experimental and cutting it off.
 

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Many folks including me have removed their compression release.

In my opinion the disadvantage of the compression release outweighs the reported advantage it provides. I have no issues (kickback) starting my KLR sans compression release.

Jason
 

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Discussion Starter #96
Many folks including me have removed their compression release.

In my opinion the disadvantage of the compression release outweighs the reported advantage it provides. I have no issues (kickback) starting my KLR sans compression release.

Jason
Do you go about just cutting it off to leave the end of the camshaft plugged? I am typically the type to ride in fairly extreme cold, so not sure if that’ll show some I’ll side effects. But overall, I’d probably prefer the peace of mind to have it removed, over constantly being worried it’s gonna grenade my freshly rebuilt top end. 🤔
I’m also uncertain what the typical cause of failure in the kacr is? The spring? Because that is a simple part I could replace. It just seems like many of the forums I’ve read on it shattering don’t really know the exact cause, which is more worrisome
 

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Discussion Starter #97
And to add more thorough info, these are the things I checked when the exhaust cam was sticking:
1. Took cams off and turned engine over to rule out the piston hanging up somewhere. Checked out
put it back together, timed cams, still getting stuck. 🤔🤔
2. Took cams off, then put intake cam back on and secured it with the cam caps, without the chain on and rotated it by hand. checked out fine.
3. Put the exhaust cam on same way as intake in #2 and rotated by hand. Was binding up.
4. Took exhaust cam off and checked the shims and lifters. The left lifter seemed to be in there reaaaaally tight, so worked with it until it moved a bit more freely, but couldn't actually remove it (which to me seems odd because I paid ED specifically to refreshen the entire valve assembly/system)
put everything back together, timed cams, still getting stuck. 🤔😑
5. Took everything back apart and inspected the kacr according to the manual. Spring worked as it should to retract the weights.
put everything back together, timed chains, still getting stuck. 🤔😤
6. Fiddled with the kacr while turning the engine over...didn’t get stuck! 🤔🤔
7. Continued to turn engine over without touching the kacr and it continued to complete smooth, unrestricted cycles

I will likely spend a lot of time today just turning the engine over and over and over to see if I can get the problem to present itself again. If it does, will probably go the route of hacking the kacr off, because even if it does cause premature wear/failure of the starting motor/gears/battery, i can replace all those parts and still not be close to the price of a new exhaust cam...and will never fear of a grenaded top end and $1,200 repair.
 

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You must leave the end of the cam plugged. It's welded in, so you'd have a devil of a time getting it out, anyway. If the cam were to be unplugged you'd have no oil pressure to push oil out of the wee holes and lube the journals.

I have a KACR-less cam in the Shed of Horrors. I'll take a picture of it so you can see what would have to come off and what would get left.

You'll have to give me some time; I'm in the midst of making a blueberry ombre cake.
 
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Discussion Starter #99
Here’s a video of the kacr play. Not sure what normal is

I spent quite a bit of time messing with the kacr while turning over the engine and never got it to stick again, so, depending on if that play in the video is “normal”, I may not take the drastic measure of cutting it off just yet.
 

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I should think that if the rivets are good and solid that the KACR should be healthy. Candidly, I wonder how many 'KACR failures' are not preceded by running out of oil and roaching the exhaust cam journal.

An unmodified KLR engine (in terms of compression ratio and valve timing) can work well enough without a KACR, but the battery needs to stay in good shape.

You can see here what needs to be done to remove the KACR:
IMG_3491.jpg
 
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