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Question for the camo gang

6K views 98 replies 31 participants last post by  New2kaw 
#1 ·
This is question for riders of camouflage color bike. How is your visibility in traffic according to your experience? Do car drivers want to kill you more i.e. turning left in front of you, trying to T-bone you etc.?
I was just reading an article about vehicle color and it says silver and grey are the 2nd more likely to get involved in accident and usually the other driver says he/she 'didn't see you'. Black ranks 1st.
 
#35 · (Edited)
I think our friends Down Under have a name for that....."SMIDSY"
"Sorry Mate, I Didn't See Ya"

I have the cipher camo version/Adventure model. I run the fog lamps full time and I placed some 3M reflective tape on the back of each side case and make sure all of the lights work before I leave for work, and I wear a lime green reflective vest. I also wear a bright white helmet with reflective tape. I ride home in the dark. But to answer the question, no, nobody has tried to kill me lately.
 
#36 ·
A while ago I saw an oncoming Gold Wing that had a single little white LED on the fairing that blinked once ~ every 3 seconds. We were on a 4-lane highway, divided by a large grassy median, yet I spotted him coming from almost a half mile away. Impressed, I took the next exit off and tried to catch up to him. Really wanted to know what he had rigged up, but alas he was long gone.
 
#38 ·
Thanks for the reply.
No actually, it was a single tiny LED off to the side of the fairing, not part of a headlight. Bright white, blinked one quick blink about every 3 seconds. Subtle, just enough to catch my eye as I watched him ride by, waiting to see it blink again. Maybe something he rigged up himself.
 
#42 ·
I checked out that link. Seems it would be easy enough to wire a charger to the light unit, for a more permanent power source. Keyed to ignition of course.
 
#47 ·
This is question for riders of camouflage color bike. How is your visibility in traffic according to your experience?
I've always thought camo bikes were just a bad idea ever since I saw the first one. Motorcycles are invisible enough as it is. I always try to pick the brightest color available when I buy a new bike, but sometimes black is the only option. That said, my gear makes me look like a rolling fruit salad with all the different hi-viz colors I've collected and mixed over the years, and I still have cars pull out in front of me. So do everything you can to stay safe. Bright gear, more lights, defensive driving on steroids, practicing panic stops and evasive maneuvers, and most importantly pray a lot.
 
#51 · (Edited)
Motorcycle color scheme is irrelevant to one's safety.
It only exists to be a conversation topic on online forums.

The most dangerous and likely direction another vehicle would approach you from is from the rear; the most dangerous and likely direction you'd approach a vehicle is going forward.
From those angles, all motorcycles are practically identical.

The pieces of the motorcycle a driver would typical see from the rear is a combination of part fender, part under-fender shadow, tire, license plate and a tail light. For maximum safety, invest in a bright tail/brake light(s).
The pieces of the motorcycle a driver would typical see from the front is a headlight, maybe a tire, maybe forks. For maximum safety, invest in a bright headlight(s).
A driver is likely to see a large area of the motorcyclist from those angles. For maximum safety, invest in reflective/high-viz attire.
 
#48 ·
#50 ·
#52 ·
The most dangerous and likely direction another vehicle would approach you from is from the rear; the most dangerous and likely direction you'd approach a vehicle is going forward.
Plenty of motorcyclists have been killed and injured by vehicles coming from unlikely directions.

The pieces of the motorcycle a driver would typical see
Drivers often see nothing of a motorcycle or the rider.

Better to be as safe as possible instead of looking for loopholes.
 
#53 ·
Drivers often see nothing of a motorcycle or the rider.

Better to be as safe as possible instead of looking for loopholes.
What loopholes? I'm describing why your statement above is all you should be thinking about.
Nobody will see the color scheme on your bike if they can't even see you altogether.

If drivers have difficult time seeing motorcycles, what makes you think they will see 20 square inches of paint on your rear fender?
Or be able to discern the color of your front faring with your headlight shining at them?

Defensive riding, bright lights, reflectors, loud horns, and loud pipes save lives.
 
#54 ·
As I said in earlier post, I fully agree that bright gear, lights, defensive riding, etc are all important and more important than motorcycle color. As I said above, sometimes you don't get much choice in bike color and I usually pick the brightest color I can. If I really wanted a particular bike and it only came in camo, I'd still buy it.

But your "loopholes" are all describing certain specific situations ("most dangerous and likely direction") and drivers. There is no typical situation and driver, and you should never assume that. There will always be a case where a certain driver in a certain situation sees that bright paint instead of everything else and it saves your life. I want to have as many safeguards as I can and I think every rider should.

And I still think that camo motorcycles are a bad idea.
 
#55 ·
And I still think that camo motorcycles are a bad idea.
You're thinking too much.
Motorcycle paints are only an exercise in branding and self-identity. "camo" paint schemes aren't some magical chameleon pattern invisibility cloaks.
To the human eye, the variations average out to the most prevalent color. Urban camo KLRs just look gray at 20 yards and above.
 
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#66 ·
sometimes there's a car in-front of you, and it doesn't happen so quickly.
I simply stay back when there's a car blocking my path through the blind spot so EVERY does apply in my case.

I don’t use my horn, I pull the clutch and rev the F out of it.
This has saved me from getting hit many, many times.
It sounds like you spend way too much time in people's blind spots. And how are you going to avoid someone with your clutch in and motor revved out?
 
#68 ·
I simply stay back when there's a car blocking my path through the blind spot so EVERY does apply in my case.
So, what if there are is a line of cars next to you?
No matter where you are, you'll be in someone's blind spot.

Can we stop with this generalizing nonsense in an attempt to sound wise?
Of course we try to NOT stay in cars' blind spots - every defensive rider does this.
Of course we're aware when we're in someone's blind spot - every defensive rider knows this.

But it does happen all of the time. It may be for a split second, it may be for 30 seconds.

I can't even count the times when the cars in the right lane were slowing down, and I had my eyes on the last one driving the same speed as me not paying attention to the slowdown in their lane.
I fully expect them to jump in my lane as soon as they see the brake lights in theirs.

And you know why they don't?
Because they were aware of me beforehand.
 
#70 ·
All this raillery and asteism is about to put me into a KLR-Coma.
 
#72 ·
What is the point of camo paint in the first place? When I might have to do some stealth camping, I have a camo mosquito net and a lightweight, dark green tarp to drape over the bike. This blocks any reflective features from showing, disrupts the motorcycle shape, and blends with any forested background. In the morning, off it comes and tah-dah, 2018 marigold, high vis paint, extra reflective tape, etc.
 
#73 ·
I think it’s actually written in the book of deuteronomy, the second sermon, that the laws of Yarweh should be obeyed…and that Kawasakis should be green, Hondas should be red, Suzukis always yellow (or black if a GSX) and Yamaha must be blue…or else!
 
#81 ·
I wear hi viz gear and ride the camo 22. I have not had any issues yet but i also stand on the pegs for intersections and swerve around in the lane. Not every intersection, but if its a 2way stop and i have the right away but there is a car waiting, i just pop up on the pegs to make myself larger. Or flashing yellow light intersections, same procedure. I did have one itchy driver pump the brakes on my way to work once, im a firm believer that me standing up caused him to think about jumping out infront of me. From the front, all KLR’s look black to me, the back isn’t much different. Its just tire and radiator or tire and taillights. Those adventure fog lights are amazing! Little shaky on potholes but night is now day and cars think im hi beaming them, i love it.
 
#95 ·
but i also stand on the pegs for intersections and swerve around in the lane. Not every intersection, but if its a 2way stop and i have the right away but there is a car waiting, i just pop up on the pegs to make myself larger.
I agree with @KLRider that standing up is a bad idea. Have you tried doing an immediate hard panic stop like that? You might have to and/or other evasive maneuvers where being locked down in the seat would work better. And weaving around could also get in the way of that. I watch every other vehicle any way near the intersection I'm approaching and try to gauge if they're going too fast to stop (as in they don't see the red light, stop sign, me, etc). I also watch the wheel covers on stopped vehicles that might pull out in front of me. Most have some kind of spokes on them so you can see if they're turning or not. If they're moving at all I honk and flash lights and prepare to panic stop or evade (as in check the lane next to me for vehicles so I know if I can swerve into them).
 
#82 ·
It's a goofy camo. It's going to be just as visible as black or any other dark color. Like wearing real tree out in the snow..... not exactly invisible. I've ridden bright blue and red bikes (proper yamaha and Honda) , dark purple (warrior), a ton of black, some with tons of chrome.

Makes no difference. And I suspect being a motorcycle don't even make much difference. That same moron that pulled out in front of you on a bike or changed lanes on you..... is the same moron that "didn't see" our tri- axle dump truck and does the same things to that. One of our dump trucks (bright white with a red bed...) t boned a guy several years back. Pulled out in front of him running 65 in a Chevy Colorado. Old guy was ok somehow.

People wreck by the thousands in the USA every day in cars because people "didn't see them".
 
#83 ·
I use the flash-to-pass button as I approach an intersection with cars waiting where I SHOULD have right-of-way. Usually several quick flashflash-flasflash-flashflash sequences. In the daylight it's always high-beams and fog lights as well.
 
#84 ·
This is the first bike I've owned with a pass button. I rode a couple buddies gsxr that had it. My yamaha/ Honda/ victory etc never had one. Lol. Ive used it to alert riders to the presence of LEO but never to pass.

I suppose I don't pass much on the KLR anyway. And if I do I'm focused on the slingshot maneuver required to get around the bicycle im passing rather than flashing the light. Lol.
 
#85 ·
I am surprised to hear did not see the Tri Axel dump truck.
Drivers (many not all but prob most) appear to notice BIG vehicles as potential threat i.e. bus, tractor trailers, etc.
Of course if they (the driver) is texting or other activity, it could be a train and they would say did not see it. Sure.

The thing is, drivers (many not all but prob most) do not perceive a motorcycle as a threat to them (talking collision potential).
They tend to tune out mentally. Just not on the brains radar. The rider must be on the alert and in defensive mode at all times.

Its also difficult for the driver to gauge the riders distance in many situations. Esp. at night and single headlight.
Some studies on the "triangular" placement of aux lights indicate this helps (even in day) oncoming drivers notice and the riders "visibility".

The old MC rider axiom; ride like your invisible and assume no one sees you AND if they did they want to kill you...seems to hold value, for me at least.

High viz, extra lights (aux) to include aux BRAKE lights, simple reflective tape all are great imho. However, its no guarantee.

I have never heard of the standing on peg strategy.
Not saying it does not work (to make a driver notice), only wonder, how well one could execute emergency braking or maneuver when standing?
One might have to execute RADICAL lean (counter steer), being a former MSF instructor from the day, such a skill was never taught (stand and forceful counter steer)..

Personally, I would want to be sitting down as I transited the intersection, at the ready (covering brake and clutch).
Of course I would have reduced my entry speed as well, looking for escape paths, etc.
Yeah, drivers hate that, seeing yellow light as speed up.

A whole different topic but I have noticed (in my town at least) drivers are MUCH more aggressive these days.
Tail gating (a personal trigger when in car or on bike but esp. on MC) much more common.

Anyway, a few thoughts.

Ride safe Stay safe
 
#87 ·
am surprised to hear did not see the Tri Axel dump truck.
Drivers (many not all but prob most) appear to notice BIG vehicles as potential threat i.e. bus, tractor trailers, etc.
Of course if they (the driver) is texting or other activity, it could be a train and they would say did not see it. Sure.

Not my experience at all. That older man had no phone. Our "small" trucks are ton dualies (white ones) and we get pulled out in front of often. Some a-hole pulled out in front of our 15 the other day and we bowed up in the road. She was in a subaru and looked right at us. Hundreds of dash cam videos from big trucks online show the same.

I've not seen a bit of difference wether we are in the kenworth or im on my victory people are just as stupid. And plenty of my driving experience is before cell phones too. As a kid in school we hit and killed a woman in the school bus who turned in front of us.... was well before cell phones and we were in a big yellow school bus.

The big difference is that with a bike it tends to be more serious where usually when it's a car pulling out into the road the truck sheds enough speed to kill them. If even hit them

In the case I mentioned earlier our guy never hit the brake. Took the walking beam axle out from under the truck and the Colorado made it back to the fuel tank. Lol.

Conversely years ago I tried to merge over onto a Mitsubishi. Heard a beep....I looked again, STILL didn't see him and tried again. He beeped again and sped up and I did see him.

I've driven several million miles and never hit anyone else. Nor have I caused an accident for anyone else. But at least that time I simply didn't see him.... twice. And he was in a red eclipse.
 
#88 ·
Wow.
I see you mentioned Colorado.
I had a brief project assigned to, Co. Springs, at the Army Air Field.
Having lived in the state as a kid, waaay back recall some fond memories.
Parents took us to Pikes Peak, Royal Gorge and the like.
Montrose was one town the other I forgot name...started school in Co...
Anyway, on that project I was surprised to see these signs on the Interstate.


I guess the program was started around year 2000.

But lets be fair, aggressive drivers are nationwide, just about any state I would think.
Maybe more concentrated in some, less than others.

Big cities probably a higher ratio I would think.

I live in TN and avoid Nashville, Chattanooga or any big metro in any state, if possible.
For sure on a MC but in car as well, if possible.
If you have to travel across country in a car, and have to get there ASAP...most folks will use the I state.

Anyway, not disputing what you say...so many factors to consider.

It has been against the law (here) to text and drive or hold a phone in hand (hands free law) but I see it ALL the time.

I too have had the blind spot near miss when attempting to merge (car).

My fault by the law...other drivers should know or at least be aware as MC riders are (I hope) to avoid riding along in a cars blind spots.

I tend to signal well before turn (car or bike) and have had drivers near rear end me.

And, to be fair, lets flip the side to stupid MC riders.

Weaving in out of traffic, no signals, high rate of speed.
Just gives all MC riders a bad rep.
Just look at utube..a plethora of dumb A** riders doing stupid stuff....squids and organ donors.

I think driving trends, as you note, people are stupid (that is, driving stupidly) are on the rise all over CONUS.
Or some folks just don't give a rodents red rectum about anyone or anything (but them).

Bottom line, car / truck / bus etc. vs. MC..contact...MC rider loses every time, sometimes in the worst way.

Makes me want to take a refresher rider class, even though I used to teach the same.
Skills must be used and honed (practiced) in order to stay proficient.

Thanks for your related stories, good reminders to all who ride.

Stay safe out there.
 
#89 ·
Anyway, not disputing what you say...so many factors to consider.
And ive had people say they get pulled out in front of on bikes a lot. So I'm not saying it's not more common. But honestly I have had very few do it to me. More in trucks and trailers and even cars.

I tend to buy or paint my vehicles black but I have a couple red and few bright blue fords. Don't seem to matter


I mentioned Colorado because that's the truck that wiped out the front end of our tri-axle. Lol.

I live in TN/NC/VA state corner area. Bristol/JC/ Charlotte/ Winston etc being the most common cities im in. Can't tell one is better than the others. Lol
 
#92 ·
what cha got there? 308? something exotic?
I see a fluted barrel, adjustable stock, scope looks long range
guess that is your reach out and touch long range cordless hole puncher?

I just picked up one of these the other day..for close encounters aka home invader repellent


I think I could easily pack in a pannier if in remote areas but prob would go with my folding PCC, KEL TEC Sub 2000, its my truck cordless hole puncher but would lend well to bike travel
 
#94 ·
what cha got there? 308? something exotic?
I see a fluted barrel, adjustable stock, scope looks long range
guess that is your reach out and touch long range cordless hole puncher?

I just picked up one of these the other day..for close encounters aka home invader repellent

View attachment 48001
I think I could easily pack in a pannier if in remote areas but prob would go with my folding PCC, KEL TEC Sub 2000, its my truck cordless hole puncher but would lend well to bike travel
20 lb 338 lapua

That soldier must have a throttle lock.
I know some of those old mil bike had no throttle return. It stayed where you turned it to. I about died on one to learn that lesson.

We had an old super trike that was the same way

I'm thinking about an atlas lock for my klr
 
#97 ·
thats a nice cordless hole puncher...was not familiar with that caliber / round..interesting. I figured it was long range with that length barrel and scope.


"..used in November 2009 by British sniper Corporal of Horse (CoH) Craig Harrison to establish a new record for the longest confirmed sniper kill in combat, at a range of 2,475 m (2,707 yd) (since broken)...

you have prob read this one but if not you might enjoy...I did


about life and times of Gunny Hathcock. Nam.

but in another era, a Finnish sniper, Simo Hayha, know as the "white death" and greatly feared by Soviet troops..amazing, he preferred iron sights over scopes.
Arguably, the greatest sniper of all, certainly of the era

 
#98 · (Edited)
After I retired, I worked as a consultant for several years. One long-term job was with a company in Mesa. They did a lot of explosive stuff and were owned by a Norwegian aerospace company. I was deployed to Lake City to work on the SMAW spotting rifle/round but, while visiting headquarters in Mesa, I toured the .338 Lapua assembly line where they loaded the sniper ammunition. It was a low-rate production (certainly compared to 5.56 production at Lake City, 1.5 billion rounds per year) with great attention to detail. We might have been making more goof-ass SMAW spotting rounds than they were making Lapua sniper.

They had a guy who sat in a tubular firing range all day and shot production samples as part of the quality monitoring process. I volunteered to give him a break but, no. Firm 'no'.

You can open up pretty good can of whoopass with it.
 
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