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Discussion Starter #1
The recent thread about this turned into a mess, due to some really bad info and a guy setting up to sell his version of a copy of the TB2.

Bill Watson aka Wattman came up with the idea a long time ago, IIRC he started the process about 2005. He made the original prototype in his home shop, and tested it for quite a while. I think we had the first production version of the original ThermoBob in late 2008. Some in the past have asked about his qualifications, he is a PE and worked as a design engineer for a turbine/jet engine company. He also personally built a 1966 Mustang fastback that made the cover of "Hot Rod" magazine several years ago. He built his own intercooler and intake manifold, and set up the fuel injection.

The ThermoBob is designed to stabilize engine temperatures as close to optimum as possible. This includes warming the engine coolant more quickly than stock, then stabilizing it. The original stock setup allows good sized thermal swings, worse on the Gen2 due to the changes in radiator design. The Gen2 radiator has more surface area, and also holds a little less coolant. If you have a stock Gen2, you likely noticed how the temperature gauge needle swing down when you accelerate from a stop. This also warms the oil a little more quickly. This is a good thing. The ThermoBob thermostat functions at a higher temperature than the stop setup. This doesn't mean the engine will over heat. All the modern cars that I know of also run anywhere 190 to 210. As far as running a lower temperature thermostat, sometimes people running cars want to run a cooler thermostat to affect the intake temperature. I personally don't see a benefit for running the stock value in the KLR. I used to think that colder is better. As I gained more knowledge, I learned that there are optimum temperatures, and colder isn't always better.

At this time, WattMan has over 180K miles on his KLR650. It still has the original bore, rings, piston, cam chain and balancer chains. A drive dog on third gear broke at 142K miles, stopping shifting. It could have been worse, and caused more damage. He removed the top end, split the cases, and replaced third gear with one from my stash. I was able to use a dial bore gauge to measure the variation of the bore. The total variation was .0011 - just over one-thousandth of an inch. At 142,000 miles! He wanted to put it back together with the original parts, to see how long he could go before rebuild. Today IIRC he has over 185K miles on the original parts: piston, bore, rings.

I've measured many cylinders over the years. Those engines running a ThermoBob consistently gauge rounder than those without. I do machine the aluminum parts for Wattman. It's your choice whether or not to use one. After seeing Bill's results, and measuring cylinders, I personally think it's a good thing. Cars have had these since the 1950's. It's even more important for an EFI engine. The EFI systems have sensors for coolant temperatures (all of them I've seen these days) as well as ambient temperature, so they can optimize fueling. Warming up more quickly and stabilizing temperatures will minimize wear and also improve fuel economy.

There is a reason for the various design features of each variation of the ThermoBob. When people copy stuff, they often don't understand why things are done a certain way.
Here is a link to test data: ThermoBob test results KLR650

Wish you health and a happy KLR life. :)x
 

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In support of what Eagle Mike has just shared with us all and what Wattman has tried to share 'in-depth' for those willing to take the time to read & understand what was observed, studied and written, the Thermo-Bob was my 1st actual modification to my bike while in-search of a way to reduce overall oil consumption in KLR engines.

The benefits of my suggested modifications for oil consumption reduction in the KLR engines is still debatable.

The benefits of a proper Radiator By-pass system in an internal combustion engine, with an appropriate temperature thermostat should not be debatable after 70+ years.

PDW Oil Flow Mods, order of importance.
 

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I have Thermobob 2's on both KLR's and I'm very happy with them. Bill's in-depth explanations and detailed testing and results were what convinced me to purchase them - I don't know how someone can look at the change in Delta T between incoming and outgoing coolant and not realize that this is a far better system than stock.

Dave
 

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Seeing as we're being honest here.


HOW YOU KNOW if your current bypass isn't working as intended is:

1) Your temp gauge still swings or runs low all the time even with the hotter thermostat that came with your current kit. (even in warm/hot climates)

2) The temperature gauge drops with RPM and/or road speed.

3) Your machine quickly heats up at stop lights.
 

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Seeing as we're being honest here.


HOW YOU KNOW if your current bypass isn't working as intended is:

1) Your temp gauge still swings or runs low all the time even with the hotter thermostat that came with your current kit. (even in warm/hot climates)

2) The temperature gauge drops with RPM and/or road speed.

3) Your machine quickly heats up at stop lights.
Yes, let us be honest and candid.

To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever complained of #1 if the bypass has been properly installed.

To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever complained of #2, ever.

#3 doesn't happen either, at least the "quickly" part, without a defect in the installation. The cooling system's upper temperature is in no way a function of the bypass system; it is controlled by radiation and convection.

We have had a case or two of bypass systems being improperly installed, usually by putting the two hoses coming out of the water pump being hooked up backward or the T-Bob unit being installed backward in the case of the TB1 and TB3.

In the case of the Wattman unit, virtually all of them have been flawlessly installed with none of these defects being present. There were some issues with the early small t-stats operating a bit erratically, but that was pretty much a learning curve issue with new product.

Frankly, I'm at a loss to understand how any bypass system could be radically different in design or performance. Save for the bypass diameter and resulting flow and hot/cold mix, there's not much to vary. I suppose one could optimize the bypass for the OEM thermostat, but using that cooler thermostat simply seems to be a bad idea.
 
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possibly the "other" bypass mod is the only one with these issues.

Yes, let us be honest and candid.

To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever complained of #1 if the bypass has been properly installed.

To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever complained of #2, ever.

#3 doesn't happen either, at least the "quickly" part, without a defect in the installation. The cooling system's upper temperature is in no way a function of the bypass system; it is controlled by radiation and convection.

We have had a case or two of bypass systems being improperly installed, usually by putting the two hoses coming out of the water pump being hooked up backward or the T-Bob unit being installed backward in the case of the TB1 and TB3.

In the case of the Wattman unit, virtually all of them have been flawlessly installed with none of these defects being present. There were some issues with the early small t-stats operating a bit erratically, but that was pretty much a learning curve issue with new product.

Frankly, I'm at a loss to understand how any bypass system could be radically different in design or performance. Save for the bypass diameter and resulting flow and hot/cold mix, there's not much to vary. I suppose one could optimize the bypass for the OEM thermostat, but using that cooler thermostat simply seems to be a bad idea.
 

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What "other" bypass mod?
 

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I think you should be very clear by saying that you are comparing and contrasting your bypass to the ProCycle and not Wattman's "Thermo-Bob" bypass and that you have never installed Wattman's bypass. This is especially true if you are going to talk about shortcomings and defects with "other" bypass systems. I say this because the vast majority of people who have heard of bypass systems for the KLR and/or who have used or are using a bypass system aren't aware of the ProCycle system. To them, when you say "other" their natural reaction is that you are talking about the Thermo-Bob. Hell, a lot of KLR owners have never even heard of a bypass system!

I think, if you are going to be honest, you need to be specific when you say that your product works better than other available options. I believe that Wattman's stuff is available in Canada.

I have been aware of the ProCycle bypass but have never chosen to try one because it is not really less expensive than Wattman's, doesn't have Wattman's extensive testing, and uses a 180* thermostat. ProCycle is a reputable supplier, but their bypass just isn't my cup of tea.
 

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I try to avoid saying names of other companies entirely. (Try)

People assume what they want to, can't help that.

I think you should be very clear by saying that you are comparing and contrasting your bypass to the ProCycle and not Wattman's "Thermo-Bob" bypass and that you have never installed Wattman's bypass. This is especially true if you are going to talk about shortcomings and defects with "other" bypass systems. I say this because the vast majority of people who have heard of bypass systems for the KLR and/or who have used or are using a bypass system aren't aware of the ProCycle system. To them, when you say "other" their natural reaction is that you are talking about the Thermo-Bob. Hell, a lot of KLR owners have never even heard of a bypass system!

I think, if you are going to be honest, you need to be specific when you say that your product works better than other available options. I believe that Wattman's stuff is available in Canada.

I have been aware of the ProCycle bypass but have never chosen to try one because it is not really less expensive than Wattman's, doesn't have Wattman's extensive testing, and uses a 180* thermostat. ProCycle is a reputable supplier, but their bypass just isn't my cup of tea.
 

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I try to avoid saying names of other companies entirely. (Try)

People assume what they want to, can't help that.
Given that there is a near-100% chance that people will assume that you are comparing your product to Wattman's, taking that approach is disingenuous and dishonest. By taking that attitude you are using people's ignorance to your advantage and then claiming plausible deniability.

I'll say it clearly. I think you are being disingenuous and dishonest. You are driven to that by your belief that you can't compete on an open playing field, which is a pity because you could.
 

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dishonest now? I cannot control what people think. And i used to get crap all the time for saying other companies names or product names. so i stopped.

sheesh, can't win. If i said the name i'd be harassed for that. Period.

i'm out. i know a no win scenario when i see it.

Given that there is a near-100% chance that people will assume that you are comparing your product to Wattman's, taking that approach is disingenuous and dishonest. By taking that attitude you are using people's ignorance to your advantage and then claiming plausible deniability.

I'll say it clearly. I think you are being disingenuous and dishonest. You are driven to that by your belief that you can't compete on an open playing field, which is a pity because you could.
 

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...And i used to get crap all the time for saying other companies names or product names. so i stopped...
That must have happened someplace else; it was not here.

...sheesh, can't win. If i said the name i'd be harassed for that. Period.
No, that's not true, either. You aren't helping yourself by making up stuff to give the impression you're being persecuted.

but that's the goal isn't it...
No, Grant, it really isn't. The goal was an honest discussion. That means that candid impressions, beliefs, thoughts, and feelings will be aired.

But, you assume what you want to, can't help that.
 
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Discussion Starter #16
dishonest now? I cannot control what people think. And i used to get crap all the time for saying other companies names or product names. so i stopped.

sheesh, can't win. If i said the name i'd be harassed for that. Period.

i'm out. i know a no win scenario when i see it.
Grant, you are playing the victim, again.
In my opinion, it's very disrespectful to the customer base, and the community at large to make claims that can't be backed up by data. Especially when the claims are outrageous.
In an earlier thread, YOU MADE ZERO NOTICE THAT YOU WERE COMPARING YOUR PRODUCT TO PRO CYCLE VS WATTMAN"S. You also made claims about the origination of the ThermoBob.
I think you are disingenuous here.
Some of the things you've said make me think you don't even understand how and why it works. Again, you rejected the data provided without even taking the time to read it. You discredit the author without examining the data or his credentials. Yet you want to hang your credentials on the wall as proof that everything you do is wonderful. And you don't even see the irony........
In my opinion, by making outrageous claims, you open the door to criticism. Some people are so gullible that you can BS them, and they will believe it.
I see you went back and deleted a lot of your comments in the earlier thread. Just amazing............
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Looks like Grant was referring to the ThermoBob (trademarked) after all. I'm pretty sure he doesn't really understand how it works, based on his various claims and description. I notice his only "contributions" to the community that I can see are to shill his wares.
Well, I'm just shocked! Shocked, I tell you!
On a more serious note, I'm not surprised. Haven't seen anything like this for a while, but I'm not surprised.
He called me a few months ago, and asked me to sell him some of my aluminum enricher cable nuts. I decided not to do so, due to the record of outrageous claims. I would not want my parts or name associated with such activity. Looks like I made a good decision. This crap gives me a headache, though.
I know most of you know this, but WattMan is really a pretty bright guy. Grant just can't compete in the real world, with real facts. I really don't like having to address stuff like this, stresses me out. He doesn't know what he's talking about with the big bore pistons either. His carb claims are just crazy.
I wish you all health, and safe rides. .
 

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Somewhat beyond radiator bypasses, but I find some questionable statements in the MCP ad reproduced in ThumperBob's Post # 17 above.

"Clipping the slide spring . . . allows the slide to open further [SIC] with less vacuum . . ."

Without invoking Hooke's Law, or the specifics of Young's Modulus, or intricate spring rate formulas, . . . shortening a spring (as in, clipping coils) INCREASES its rate (as in, requires greater force to obtain deflection, or . . . "stiffens" the spring).

So, stiffening a slide spring by coil-cutting allows greater slide displacement with less vacuum ("vacuum," the source of force on the spring)?

I think the character, "Sportin' Life," from "Porgy and Bess," would say, "It ain't necessarily so!"

The concept (shortening a spring stiffens the spring) seems counter-intuitive, but . . . demonstrations illustrate the notion's validity.

(This material will be on your quiz.)

:)

Some may take comfort in the assurance from the ad of Post # 17 above, "ALL OF THESE ISSUES ARE CORRECTED 100% BY THE MCP CARBURETOR CORRECTION KIT."
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Somewhat beyond radiator bypasses, but I find some questionable statements in the MCP ad reproduced in ThumperBob's Post # 17 above.
Snipped here.....
Yet he's the guy that puts down the value of a PE cert.
If you looked really really hard, you might find a couple more. :) He calls it a "thermostat bypass" which I find interesting. I could make a list.
Does he really think all those errors are facts? Does he really know underneath he's completely full of bovine excrement? Is it just marketing malarkey? Does he really believe he's smarter than everyone else?
 
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