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Excellent I can't wait to try it thank you all very much (y)(y)

Sounds logical but in practical terms the airbox is a much larger restriction than the exhaust - which is why pulling the snorkle should be done even with the stock silencer. to put it another way, removing the restriction in the intake does allow the engine to pump as much air out as it's pulling in because the exhaust restriction isn't a factor at stock or near stock power levels.


Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #62
I Agree with that, but the only reason why I didn't pull the snorkel was because I didn't feel like I was opening up the exhaust enough to compensate for what would be an increase of air through the airbox. My theory was that an engine can only pump out as much air as its pulling in. I will definitely give that a try before I go and buy the MCP Kit.
Agree with David and Paul, first thing is pull the snorkel if you are going to change the jetting from stock. The KLX kit can be set up for use with the snorkel in place, but no one does that. The snorkel is a big restriction. If one changes the muffler and/or the intake system, time to adjust the jetting.
Even the "plugged up" version of that pipe will require different jetting than the stock muffler. Also, stay on top of the packing. Sooner or later it will need attention. Sometimes guys wait too long, and the little aluminum muffler canister starts absorbing all the pulses, then it gets hot, and starts coming apart. I can't get them in Ca any more, but I love LeoVince due to the quality of construction and permanent packing.
Maintenance is a very good thing. I just pulled the top end off a neglected 2002 this morning, and it's a sad sad thing.
 

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The reliable way you are going to get a correctly set up carburetor is to invest in and take the time to learn how to use and air/fuel (A/F) meter. An Innovate LM-2 as a starting point comes to mind.

The only other strategy is to make one change at a time to the air/fuel system and evaluate the results for yourself.
Or, look through the forum for other people who have done this A/F measuring (Tom Schmitz), and copy what they did.

You also might want to follow my experimenting with the stock and MCP jets/needles. Under the thread on 692 engine upgrade. The fuel mileage is substantially lower with the MCP kit than with stock.
 

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Discussion Starter #64 (Edited)
Or, look through the forum for other people who have done this A/F measuring (Tom Schmitz), and copy what they did.

You also might want to follow my experimenting with the stock and MCP jets/needles. Under the thread on 692 engine upgrade. The fuel mileage is substantially lower with the MCP kit than with stock.
I used a recording a/f LM1 when I came up with the KLX profiles, although every bike varies a bit. I'm going to do a bunch more including mcp at some point and compare.
I can tell you why the guy in the 692 thread with the mcp isn't getting the idle drop he expected, it's because the needle/main jet relationship is sucking fuel at all times. He can't drop the needle on that kit, he can only go to a smaller main.
I've opened up the carb on running klr650s that had the mixture screw all the way seated from the factory. Yet, they still idled, because the needle/main setup still seeps fuel. They come off idle a lot better when it's set properly.
That's one reason some of the claims bother me. It's obvious some people just haven't done any real testing and/or don't understand how stuff works, and make up a lot of stuff. One of the things mcp said was the KLX needle can't work because it was designed to a dirt bike engine. It was a 650cc single. It can be adjusted to suit most riders. The problem with the Dynojet suggested setup is they are often really rich, and I've had a couple of people call me saying they were only getting about 30 mpg. It also can be adjusted to be pretty nice.
 

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The fuel mileage is substantially lower with the MCP kit than with stock.
Have you considered trying the next leaner pilot jet and / or main jet at your altitude? What is your altitude?
 

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I've opened up the carb on running klr650s that had the mixture screw all the way seated from the factory. Yet, they still idled, because the needle/main setup still seeps fuel.
The 4 low speed transition holes at the bottom lip of the throttle plate would be the primary fuel feed outlets with a fully closed external mixture screw, if I'm not mis-taken.

In theory, the o-ring which MCP supplies to be stretched over the throttle slide to keep the slide lifted X distance at rest/idle reduces the vacuum around the needle jet / jet needle outlet to prevent premature fuel flow out of that orifice.

Kawasaki suggested a similar lifting of the throttle slide on one ATV model in the late 1980's to help alleviate an issue.
This may be where Grant J of MCP got the idea from.
 

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Discussion Starter #67 (Edited)
The 4 low speed transition holes at the bottom lip of the throttle plate would be the primary fuel feed outlets with a fully closed external mixture screw, if I'm not mis-taken.

In theory, the o-ring which MCP supplies to be stretched over the throttle slide to keep the slide lifted X distance at rest/idle reduces the vacuum around the needle jet / jet needle outlet to prevent premature fuel flow out of that orifice.

Kawasaki suggested a similar lifting of the throttle slide on one ATV model in the late 1980's to help alleviate an issue.
This may be where Grant J of MCP got the idea from.
When I was first experimenting with the KLX, I tried dropping the needle by raising the clip, and keeping the main the same. There was a point at which there was a drastic change in the idle mixture, 2 points IIRC, something like going 13.5 to 15.5. That was the only change made for that test. The height of the needle can make a big difference.
As long as the mixture is reasonable, drivability is good, and mpg is what the rider wants it really doesn't matter a lot how one gets there. There are limits to what one can do. We've had a klr to 127 indicated with a carb and stock exhaust, where it got just a little bit squirrely (haha). Stock gen1 bodywork.
Sometimes mpg goes down when the bike is more fun to ride - the right wrist gets involved. That's one reason I liked actually recording the runs, in combination with the tach signal. I could record about an hour with that setup back then, then look at it closely later on the confuser.. I have a newer version that will record a lot more.
ETA: we're wildly off topic here. Tomorrow morning I'll start setting up testing with a gen1 that is in decent shape. Compression with cab off is about 180, and leakdown about 7-8 percent. Pretty good for a stock piston and cylinder with 33K on it, right? It's a gen1, 1992.
I have a low mile 2016, but haven't down a leakdown or compression on it. And some others, but I think it'll be best to play with a completely stock setup first. I'll be trying to get another site set up with just some tech info. I owe that to the people that helped support me through my experience with chemo in 2018.
 

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Lots to cover:
Paul, I’m carefully testing changes to the carburetion as I have recorded on the 692 upgrade thread. I live at 1200 ft, but my riding and test route is purty near sea level. First I used a 45 pilot jet, then a 42, then I went down to a 40 pilot jet with the MCP needle and main jet (152.5). In all configurations, the fuel mileage was below 40 MPG at a constant 65 MPH. Then I went back to the stock needle and 145 main with 40 pilot, and my mileage jumped up to 47 MPG at constant 65 MPH. However throttle response and 50-70MPH acceleration were better with the MCP configurations.
Mike: yeah we’re pretty far off topic now (radiator bypass?). I really appreciate whatever tech info you can post. Obviously, I’m a geek for this stuff too. Perhaps one of us should start a new thread on.carb modifications and effects!
 

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Just curious: What are your expectations from the MCP kit (versus the stock or KLX kit)?
Basically was hoping for the same throttle response from the KLX needle but without such a hug loss of MPG, and the stock needle and jets were of course way too lean and would backfire on deceleration. But I was told to try removing the snorkel from the airbox and seeing how that works out before trying the MCP. And im not buying that "removes the dead spots" thing that the MCP guy is trying to sell don't worry. But ill admit the YouTube videos look impressive.
 

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Somehow, appear unable to quote your post above, MTKKLR! "Report" (versus "Quote") is the only option presented.

Thanks for the comeback; glad you're not expecting the ludicrous claims posted on ADV just before the vendor was banned (I think his, "advertisements for himself," his posts, were deleted from the website).

Good luck in your tuning; I subscribe to the notion: Hard to improve on optimum air/fuel ratio no matter from whence o how the mix occurs. (Admittedly, a controversial postulation.)
 

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Somehow, appear unable to quote your post above, MTKKLR! "Report" (versus "Quote") is the only option presented.

Thanks for the comeback; glad you're not expecting the ludicrous claims posted on ADV just before the vendor was banned (I think his, "advertisements for himself," his posts, were deleted from the website).

Good luck in your tuning; I subscribe to the notion: Hard to improve on optimum air/fuel ratio no matter from whence o how the mix occurs. (Admittedly, a controversial postulation.)
Haha no worries. And yea all that guy had to do was not come in here acting so aggressive and we would have welcomed him into the community just as we do with anyone who brings some new KLR tech to the table. It was like an annoying car salesmen reading a script haha.
 

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ETA: we're wildly off topic here. Tomorrow morning I'll start setting up testing with a gen1 that is in decent shape. Compression with cab off is about 180, and leakdown about 7-8 percent. Pretty good for a stock piston and cylinder with 33K on it, right? It's a gen1, 1992.
Mike: yeah we’re pretty far off topic now (radiator bypass?). I really appreciate whatever tech info you can post. Obviously, I’m a geek for this stuff too.
I don't feel that we are off topic, at all. Because MCP claimed that his carburetor jetting kit cures / cured KLR650 engine temperature anomalies.

One thing changed always effects another, but Not by That much, in this case. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #74
Basically was hoping for the same throttle response from the KLX needle but without such a hug loss of MPG, and the stock needle and jets were of course way too lean and would backfire on deceleration. But I was told to try removing the snorkel from the airbox and seeing how that works out before trying the MCP. And im not buying that "removes the dead spots" thing that the MCP guy is trying to sell don't worry. But ill admit the YouTube videos look impressive.
Popping on decel can be caused by many things. Leaks at the header, AIS system, sticky valve on the left side of carb, aftermarket muffler. No load on engine at decel, some new performance cars even pop on decel. Lean to reduce emissions. Can likely do a little tuning to get you to the perfect happy place. :D
I don't feel that we are off topic, at all. Because MCP claimed that his carburetor jetting kit cures / cured KLR650 engine temperature anomalies.

One thing changed always effects another, but Not by That much, in this case. ;)
Don't forget the other stuff claimed. I never saw the full list, but the stuff I did see was really incredible. As in "not credible" IMHO. There was the vibration claim, the oil use claim, the better ignition timing claim, then the temperature claim - by the way, if the "carb correction kit" cured temperature stuff, why would he need to come up with a "thermostat bypass" anyway? And who would want to bypass the thermostat for the typical KLR to the point they'd sell a kit? Not even touching the various claims regarding carburation :D .
I pulled this out of an engine today. I think it might quality as a "thermostat bypass"
28697
 

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I pulled this out of an engine today. I think it might quality as a "thermostat bypass"
Is the impeller shaft 'twisted Off'? And were they hoping that it could cool quickly enough by simple convection?
 

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Discussion Starter #76
Is the impeller shaft 'twisted Off'? And were they hoping that it could cool quickly enough by simple convection?
Actually it was, but I don't know the order of damage. The bike had been sitting a back patio for a couple of years, with both side cases off. I suspect the guy was going to rebuild the waterpump and broke the shaft, although it's hard to say. The impeller was laying beside the bike on the concrete. Had a very floppy JT sprocket on the output shaft. No leaks on the seal for the output shaft. The head looks pretty good other than very low valve shim clearance.
 

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Some people 'shouldn't have any tools' imo.
 

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Don't forget the other stuff claimed. I never saw the full list, but the stuff I did see was really incredible. As in "not credible" IMHO. There was the vibration claim, the oil use claim, the better ignition timing claim, then the temperature claim - . . .
From ADV, I remember: "CRAZY POWER!" And, a claim for simultaneously additional power and improved fuel economy.

Valid claims? Don't know.

Once, scientists claimed measurement of COLD FUSION, in Utah. Never observed elsewhere yet, outside that state . . .
 

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Discussion Starter #80
From ADV, I remember: "CRAZY POWER!" And, a claim for simultaneously additional power and improved fuel economy.

Valid claims? Don't know.

Once, scientists claimed measurement of COLD FUSION, in Utah. Never observed elsewhere yet, outside that state . . .
I've not been involved, even in reading about, cold fusion. I'd think it would be pretty widely publicized if it was truly done. Not sure how much attention the media would give these days.

It's pretty funny how every once in a while come guy shows up and makes crazy claims for some product. CRAZY POWER? In an otherwise stock KLR engine? It's just not going to happen. How can anyone believe anything that guy says, after all the crazy (literally) claims? He clearly doesn't even understand how some stuff works, given what he says. When he made a certain claim about the ThermoBob, I knew he didn't/doesn't understand how it all works. He wanted to buy some of my aluminum enricher nuts for resale, but I don't want him associated in any way with any of my products. A local guy bought one of his kits, and lost mpg compared to the KLX setup at the mcp recommended settings.

A long time ago in KLR history, before all the forums were even going, there was a Yahoo users group for the KLR650. A guy showed up, advertising a slip-on muffler, saying "you can get a willy in every gear." I don't know anyone that actually ordered one, but it was a source of endless amusement on that group. I think he had them on eBay for a bit. The spelling changed to "whilly" "whillie" and I think he finally got it right at "wheelie." I should have bought a bunch, at least a couple so I could have a KLR that could "willy in every gear." I consider the mcp claims in the same category as this guy.
 
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