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Discussion Starter #1
This last week I was driving along in Visalia and a guy with his SUV stopped in the road was flagging me down. As I pulled up I saw a downed motorcycle... about 40 ft further I saw a helmet... and about 40 ft up from the helmet I saw the rider. I stopped, ran to the rider to check for vitals. Nothing on the wrist or neck. He was in the fetal position on his right side and his left eye was open (I couldn't see his right eye). As I began to roll him over I saw the side of head was crushed. At this time the witness told me he saw everything in his rear view mirror... two m/c's going at high rate of speed, one lost control and wrecked, the other took off. The witness wouldn't approach the downed cyclist, but by this time several others had stopped. Two happened to be nurses. They checked for vitals and one began to roll him over as I had done and stopped when she saw his head as well.

This is a real reminder for me to ride with the utmost care. I have a family that depends on me. When ever I read about a fellow cyclist perishing, I take pause and consider the risks. Seeing this in real life is something else entirely.
 

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With the helmet separated from the rider, it makes me wonder if the rider was wearing the helmet - or of the backrest on the bike was wearing it.

I can't tell you the number of times I've been passed by riders who have their helmet either hanging from the helmet lock or strapped onto the backrest, and my thought every time is "That helmet ain't going to do you any good when it's not on your melon!"

ATGATT, Compadres!

Get home safely for yourself - and for your loved ones!
 

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I'll get my knuckles wrapped for saying this but....I have no compassion for the rider who doesn't wear a helmet at least....I have all the compassion for his family!

It just boggles my mind that you are willing to risk this type of outcome and think nothing of your safety let alone the hardships you are dealing onto your family members.

Sorry but hey.....there are Darwin Awards for a reason!:13:
 

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Somewhat judgmental, IMHO, assuming the cyclist wasn't wearing his helmet as the accident began.

Helmets sometimes become separated from their wearers as a result of impact; I'd hesitate concluding the victim helmetless without additional evidence.

I think California has a mandatory helmet law.

Certainly helmets reduce the severity of head injuries when worn; however--some accidents aren't survivable, regardless of protective gear.

Self-righteous outrage at presumed reckless behavior (riding without protective headgear) without supporting evidence doesn't seem useful, to me.

Fully-protected motorcycle policeman with flashing lights and siren, crossing an intersection with a green traffic light in his favor was killed locally, yesterday; car made left-turn into his path.
 

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Somewhat judgmental, IMHO, assuming the cyclist wasn't wearing his helmet as the accident began.

Helmets sometimes become separated from their wearers as a result of impact; I'd hesitate concluding the victim helmetless without additional evidence.

I think California has a mandatory helmet law.

Certainly helmets reduce the severity of head injuries when worn; however--some accidents aren't survivable, regardless of protective gear.

Self-righteous outrage at presumed reckless behavior (riding without protective headgear) without supporting evidence doesn't seem useful, to me.

Fully-protected motorcycle policeman with flashing lights and siren, crossing an intersection with a green traffic light in his favor was killed locally, yesterday; car made left-turn into his path.
For what it's worth: If your comments were directed to my post, you'd have to go back and read where I stated "With the helmet separated from the rider, it makes me wonder if the rider was wearing the helmet..." IF the rider was wearing the helmet...

At no point did I say that the rider was riding without his helmet.

I then went on to state that there have been numerous occasions where I've watched riders pass me with their helmets on their backrests, etc.

Hell, I've even had a guy riding by with his young daughter (probably 10 yrs old or less) hanging on behind daddy wearing her helmet, while daddy's helmet was hanging on the helmet lock.

I'm well aware that there are instances where helmets come off during accidents, or that there are accidents that aren't survivable.

My apologies for not being more clear in my initial post. It wasn't my intent to be judgmental toward the unfortunate rider who lost his life in the wreck described above.

:t1204:
 

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Maybe the OP is a trained responder but just saying:

Never move an accident victim unless it's to save his life. Get traffic stopped but don't endanger yourself in the process. Manage the scene until pros show up.

A properly fitted and secured full face helmet won't come off short of ripping your head off. Of course even in helmet required states a full face helmet is only worn by a small minority of riders in my observation. Modular helmets are getting popular though. Unfortunately I know that because I see them riding around with them flipped up!
 

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Not trying to make any conjecture, but I am amazed by the number of riders who just don't fasten the straps on the helmet. Crazy.

Who knows what happened here except a tragedy. I'm sorry you had to see that, brother, but it is a good gut check. And a reminder to pick your friends and who you ride with carefully. I can't BELIEVE the other bike bailed. I only hope someone whoops his ass something fierce.

And I do agree, never touch, especially never remove a helmet...but those things are tough to remember in the moment. A sticker that says, 'please don't remove my helmet' is always a good idea.
 

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First, thanks for stopping at the scene, many do not these days.
The reminder is all too scary for me as I spent 5 hours in the ER after the 25 minute ambulance ride down the hill a year ago.

Second, you did the right thing. It's now C,B,A's, Circulation, Breathing, Airway. The mechanism was there, loss of helmet, also dictates to hold C-spine precautions, but with no pulse, or breathing, one must try to determine the extent of the trauma.

I'm sorry for the picture that will never go away in your head, it will ease with time. I've seen too many over the years, and when you do, you just know. All the precautions in the world don't help when it's time to go.

You may trust YOUR riding, never trust the other guys driving though.

Again, thanks for stopping.
 

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Not trying to make any conjecture, but I am amazed by the number of riders who just don't fasten the straps on the helmet. Crazy.
At least once (maybe twice) I've ridden off without the helmet strap. Just an oversight.

But as soon as I felt it flapping, I pulled over and cinched it on.

Like you said, it's practically pointless to use a helmet with the strap dangling. But I guess a large contingent feels it's pointless to wear a helmet, so who cares about the strap, then.
 

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I used to race stock cars. There was a bad wreck with one car doing multiple barrel rolls. The driver's helmet flew out of the car and went nearly 50 ft in the air and landed 100ft away. We didn't know if his head was still in it till he climbed out of the car. The helmet had an aftermarket quick release which broke. I have never considered using a quick release since.
Regards....justjeff
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Yes, the guy was wearing his helmet, I don't know if it was strapped or not. I didn't pick up or inspect the helmet, but I could see it was severely damaged... nearly broken in half, and it was a full face helmet. I am a trained first responder and there was no way an airway could be established, at least not on the side of the road. The guy hit his head on the light post at what I would estimate 60-80 mph. As near as I could tell, his head was the only thing that hit the pole.

In hindsight, and if I ever am first to arrive at something like this again, I think I would start chest compressions until rescue arrives, but I'm not going to beat myself up over this incident because I really believe he died instantly. I also sort of deferred to the nurses opinion, one of whom said something about the fluid coming out of the guys head and not continuing or attempting any life saving actions. I didn't attempt to roll the guy until after I determined he had no pulse and was not breathing. When I did, I could see his head was severely disfigured.
 

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Very sad. Thanks for trying to help.
Regards....justjeff
 

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Something for proponents of ATGATT to think about. Me? I'm "All The Gear Most Of The Time" and I don't concern myself with what other motorcyclists choose to wear. I have no problem with ATGATT but Risk Compensation is something that should at least be considered. The most important piece of protective gear you will ever possess is your own brain..... Bottom line: don't let the gear influence you to do things you would choose to not do if you were without it.

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/howto/street_savvy/122_1107_modern_motorcycle_safety_street_savvy/
 

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Thanks

Yes, the guy was wearing his helmet, I don't know if it was strapped or not. I didn't pick up or inspect the helmet, but I could see it was severely damaged... nearly broken in half, and it was a full face helmet. I am a trained first responder and there was no way an airway could be established, at least not on the side of the road. The guy hit his head on the light post at what I would estimate 60-80 mph. As near as I could tell, his head was the only thing that hit the pole.

In hindsight, and if I ever am first to arrive at something like this again, I think I would start chest compressions until rescue arrives, but I'm not going to beat myself up over this incident because I really believe he died instantly. I also sort of deferred to the nurses opinion, one of whom said something about the fluid coming out of the guys head and not continuing or attempting any life saving actions. I didn't attempt to roll the guy until after I determined he had no pulse and was not breathing. When I did, I could see his head was severely Thanksdisfigured.
Thanks again for stopping I to have had an open face come off upon impact
 

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Something for proponents of ATGATT to think about. Me? I'm "All The Gear Most Of The Time" and I don't concern myself with what other motorcyclists choose to wear. I have no problem with ATGATT but Risk Compensation is something that should at least be considered. The most important piece of protective gear you will ever possess is your own brain..... Bottom line: don't let the gear influence you to do things you would choose to not do if you were without it.

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/howto/street_savvy/122_1107_modern_motorcycle_safety_street_savvy/

I'm ATGATT but less militant about it than when I started riding on the street. It used to upset me seeing street riders in shorts and flip flops but now I have pity for their poor choices.

My background is racing dirt bikes and there's a gear "arms race" in that sport, i.e. knee braces, neck braces, etc. When there's a 100% chance that you will go down protection is a priority. I'm thinking that most street riders don't consider the consequences of a crash. Personally I don't subscribe to the 2 kinds of riders saying, "those who have crashed and those who will". Yea I know that stuff happens beyond your control but statistically most motorcycle accidents are self-inflicted. I'm wanting to believe that you can have a long road riding carrier without crashing, but I wear the gear just in case.

That article is interesting and I've heard the theory advanced in other sports. Motorcylists are much less risk averse than the general population anyway so does ABS, TC or whatever really have a influence on riding behavior? We're allready certifiable to the 95% who don't ride!
 

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Yes, the guy was wearing his helmet, I don't know if it was strapped or not. I didn't pick up or inspect the helmet, but I could see it was severely damaged... nearly broken in half, and it was a full face helmet. I am a trained first responder and there was no way an airway could be established, at least not on the side of the road. The guy hit his head on the light post at what I would estimate 60-80 mph. As near as I could tell, his head was the only thing that hit the pole.

In hindsight, and if I ever am first to arrive at something like this again, I think I would start chest compressions until rescue arrives, but I'm not going to beat myself up over this incident because I really believe he died instantly. I also sort of deferred to the nurses opinion, one of whom said something about the fluid coming out of the guys head and not continuing or attempting any life saving actions. I didn't attempt to roll the guy until after I determined he had no pulse and was not breathing. When I did, I could see his head was severely disfigured.

Yea good on you for helping out.

Gear doesn't matter after a point.

Sportbikes and young men can be a significant risk combination. The military recognizes this and has instituted mandatory training specific to them. Don't know what the riders age was in this accident but more than likely he was young.

I read a sportbike forum that's mostly young guys I think. They talk about local roads they can ride fast on. There is a "RIP rider" thread fairly reguarlly on there. Sad that that doesn't seem to influence their behavior.
 

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Yea good on you for helping out.

Gear doesn't matter after a point.

Sportbikes and young men can be a significant risk combination. The military recognizes this and has instituted mandatory training specific to them. Don't know what the riders age was in this accident but more than likely he was young.

I read a sportbike forum that's mostly young guys I think. They talk about local roads they can ride fast on. There is a "RIP rider" thread fairly reguarlly on there. Sad that that doesn't seem to influence their behavior.
I can say that my son is going through the whole "certification" process to be able to ride his KLR onto Camp Pendleton. First off, he had to take the "Basic Rider's Course" - all training on Hyosung Comet 250 cc. Then, if you want to ride your motorcycle on base, you have to complete the Advanced Rider's Course - on your own motorcycle.

That's where he's hung up right now - because Utah's licensing stuff is kinda screwy. So he's going to get a California license / motorcycle endorsement, and once that happens, I'll haul his KLR down to him so he can take the course and such on base to get his base tags.

And yes, he's quite impatient about it.
 

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Fully-protected motorcycle policeman with flashing lights and siren, crossing an intersection with a green traffic light in his favor was killed locally, yesterday; car made left-turn into his path.

You live in Northern VA?? If I am thinking of the same wreck, I was at the spot at lunchtime today. Pavement is scorched from when I guess his bike burst into flames. I was on my bike. I was extra careful right there. Its a wide open intersection, no excuse for not seeing him unless the driver was not paying any attention.
 
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