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Discussion Starter #21
Please explain what is in a "good motorcycle oil" that is not covered under the JASO MA. JASO MA means more than 'wet clutch compatible'.

Bear in mind, though, that irrespective of all the hype, bullshit, and advertising talk that appears on the outside of the bottle, in ads, or on websites, the only thing you really know about the oil is what is inside that little emblem on the back that list the spec the oil conforms to. Other words, like "4-Stroke", "Racing 4T", "V-Twin 4T" don't mean diddly. In fact, "V-Twin 4T" probably means it's ordinary engine oil.

The spec is the spec.

Oil. It's a marvel, it's a mystery.
Exactly,
If the V twin designation meant anything substantial, it would differentiate between air or liquid cooled and shared trans or separate trans.. There's a VAST difference between a Kawasaki or Honda V twin and a Harley.
 

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Now, a KTM 1290S (oh the humanity !!!), Now that girl would get the good stuff.
Once, in my misspent youth, in a foreign country, I entered a club/bar/dive/etc. with some of my rifle team companions.

The maitre d'hotel seated us, and offered the company of the hostesses employed by the establishment to join us socially for cocktails.

He informed us, "They drink only champagne."

He was right, according to our bar tabs.

Similarly, my KTMs drink only Motul!

:)
 

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Discussion Starter #23
You are right, oil is a marvel and a mystery. JASA MA is specified for motorcycles using the same oil lubricating the engine and wet clutch.

I'm not a chemist, but here is a good quote from Motorcyclist magazine.

"It’s possible to find automotive oil with the appropriate API service type and viscosity range in a non-energy-conserving formulation, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s appropriate for use in your bike. There are some key differences between motorcycle engines and car engines, most notably the fact that motorcycles have shared sumps. The meat grinder that is the transmission is tough on the viscosity index modifiers and calls for high-pressure and anti-wear additives that aren’t part of the normal automotive-oil package. Add to that the fact that motorcycle engines make more power per liter, spin faster, and run hotter than car engines and it’s pretty clear that picking motorcycle-specific oil is important."
What about the quad cam Harley sportster engine? That engine has a set of 4 gear driven cams and a pinion gear driven oil pump. Plenty of heat and shear going on inside.. IF you read the owners manual, Harley says they recommend you use "Genuine Harley Davidson 20W50 Motor Oil", BUT in the case you cannot find it, USE 15W40 DIESEL ENGINE OIL..
I'd be willing to bet you if you tested many other Diesel engine oils they too would meet JASO specs. They just never saw the need to pay the $ to get certified as they are not marketing their oil towards a motorcycle.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Once, in my misspent youth, in a foreign country, I entered a club/bar/dive/etc. with some of my rifle team companions.

The maitre d'hotel seated us, and offered the company of the hostesses employed by the establishment to join us socially for cocktails.

He informed us, "They drink only champagne."

He was right, according to our bar tabs.

Similarly, my KTMs drink only Motul!

:)
I too spent a small fortune in similar bars overseas in my youthful "young dumb and full of cum" days.. It was a good time though.
 

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I admit to once being young and dumb.

As of today I am no longer young.

Waiter, a motul for the lady. I'll just have a beer. Sure hope my wife don't mind if she accompanies me home from the dealer someday.

She sure is pretty. And that orange hair !
 

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The allusion to "Marvel Mystery" motor oil may be effective, generationally, MrZappo! You cannot possibly have the same knowledge of arcane trivia possessed by us, the SENILE! :)

My memories of Marvel Mystery: The concentric circle optical illusion the vendor used in its marketing; the "demonstration" where automobiles were fortified with Marvel Mystery, then run with DRAINED crankcases across the American desert in the summertime . . . surely, a Marvel Mystery! :)
 

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FYI Damocles

The KLR650 Clymer Manual does does caution specifically against the use of energy conserving classified oils;

"When ENERGY CONSERVING is listed in this part of the the (API Service symbol) label, the oil has demonstrated energy-conserving properties in the standard tests. Do not us ENERGY CONSERVING oil in motorcycle engines".

This does not necessarily reflect or conflict with my opinion. I just thought it might be of interest to you. Like your's, my owner's manual does not mention energy conserving oil.

Cheers

Timberfoot
 

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MMO gets my vote for "best oil additive can design." In a culture where people like to analyze things to death, I'm surprised some sage has not yet revealed the hidden meanings of that logo...........
 

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FYI Damocles

The KLR650 Clymer Manual does does caution specifically against the use of energy conserving classified oils;

"When ENERGY CONSERVING is listed in this part of the the (API Service symbol) label, the oil has demonstrated energy-conserving properties in the standard tests. Do not us ENERGY CONSERVING oil in motorcycle engines".

This does not necessarily reflect or conflict with my opinion. I just thought it might be of interest to you. Like your's, my owner's manual does not mention energy conserving oil.

Cheers

Timberfoot
Thanks for the info, Timberfoot!

The comment might be, "boiler plate," used by Clymer in ALL motorcycle service manuals they publish.

Then, again, the admonition may be a CRITICAL OMISSION in the Kawasaki literature!

:)
 

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Discussion Starter #32
I may be wrong and welcome the correction, but I've never seen any 40 wt class oils that were classified as "energy conserving" so I do not see why all the fuss about using it. From everything I've observed in the store, energy conserving oils are limited to 20 and 30 multi-weights and unless you're some kind of polar bear rider in the great north during winter no one would/should be considering those anyway.
 
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Forgive (if you can) this walk down, Memory Lane!

Anyone (besides me) remember those late-night infomercials touting engine oil additives?

I think, "Slick 50," was one of the many.

Anyhow, one simply added a bit of these joy-juice liquids to a crankcase, and voila! Instant longer service life, improved fuel mileage, more power, less oil consumption . . . more-or-less, I suppose, the benefits claimed by the KLR650 PCV Valve Mod.

I wonder what became of these products, and . . . the ADVERTISING AGENCIES creating the ads. Lots of actors and spokespersons must have drawn unemployment benefits after this TV bombardment ended . . .

---------------------------------

Some clues, and perhaps at least partial answers to my query . . . http://www.skepdic.com/slick50.html

:)
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Slick-50 with the Teflon that mostly stayed in the filter..
 

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I may be wrong and welcome the correction, but I've never seen any 40 wt class oils that were classified as "energy conserving" so I do not see why all the fuss about using it. From everything I've observed in the store, energy conserving oils are limited to 20 and 30 multi-weights and unless you're some kind of polar bear rider in the great north during winter no one would/should be considering those anyway.
Would you stop it with this shit already?

This is an oil thread. Grandly throwing around real facts and data will do you no good.

Rumor, hyperbola, and innuendo rule the day here, so get with the program. Let me give you an example: "My KLR was burning oil real bad, so I swtiched frm 10W40 to 15W50 and it cured by oil burining. So just swtich ur bike to thicker oil. Here, I made a video with my handheld iphone in prtrait mode showing how my KLR runs by sweeping it all over hte engine real fast."

Carry on.
 
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I have little to add.

When one is considering any of the V-Twin oils, Confirm that they DON'T Have a JASO MB rating. The MB rating is for separated engines.

Using an MB rated oil would be equivalent to using the "Energy Conserving" additives from the thinner automotive oils in your Wet Clutch transmission.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Would you stop it with this shit already?

This is an oil thread. Grandly throwing around real facts and data will do you no good.

Rumor, hyperbola, and innuendo rule the day here, so get with the program. Let me give you an example: "My KLR was burning oil real bad, so I swtiched frm 10W40 to 15W50 and it cured by oil burining. So just swtich ur bike to thicker oil. Here, I made a video with my handheld iphone in prtrait mode showing how my KLR runs by sweeping it all over hte engine real fast."

Carry on.
Not sure what you're getting at here with quoting me and telling me to stop this shit as it is an old thread , but I started this thread 6 days ago inquiring as to why the T4 and T6 Rotella was JASO MA/ MA2 certified but the semi syn T5 was not...
 

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It was a joke, @PaddyD, a joke.

You are stating facts in an oil thread.

Oil threads usually don't have facts and data in them.

Oh, and I said oil thread, not old thread.

Anyway, sorry, I meant it as a compliment.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
It was a joke, @PaddyD, a joke.

You are stating facts in an oil thread.

Oil threads usually don't have facts and data in them.

Oh, and I said oil thread, not old thread.

Anyway, sorry, I meant it as a compliment.
Ok. I thought you must be pulling my chain , but given it is a forum and some tend to get pretty exercised over minutia, you just never know..
Also, no need for any apology. Even if you were not joking, I'm a big boy and can take criticism.

Now to the original question I had about T5 not being JASO certified. After waiting 6 days for a response for my online inquiry, I called Shell Oil today and the guy on the other end told me the only reason T5 semi syn is not certified is because Shell only wanted to pay the big $ for the two most popular oils in the Rotella line. He told me for legal purposes he couldn't tell me to use it, but stated that people had been running T4 for many years in motorcycles prior to it ever receiving JASO certification. He said in his opinion it, (T5) would be just fine, but if 30,000 miles down the road I experienced issues the co wouldn't be liable as it is not labeled as a suitable oil. He did verify that T4 and T6 are 100% certified and suitable for use in any Japanese motorcycle that requires oil within the viscosity range on the bottles and that it is not just "Diesel Engine" oil.

I also have used it in my garden tractor for years now and it has done just fine in that application too. So I have concluded that I no longer will search for the latest, greatest miracle oil for Black Betty.. This stuff is under $13 a gallon and is plenty good as long as I don't try to run it too long between changes, which I never do anyway.

In conclusion, my question has been answered.
 

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Ok.
Now to the original question I had about T5 not being JASO certified. After waiting 6 days for a response for my online inquiry, I called Shell Oil today and the guy on the other end told me the only reason T5 semi syn is not certified is because Shell only wanted to pay the big $ for the two most popular oils in the Rotella line. He told me for legal purposes he couldn't tell me to use it, but stated that people had been running T4 for many years in motorcycles prior to it ever receiving JASO certification. He said in his opinion it, (T5) would be just fine, but if 30,000 miles down the road I experienced issues the co wouldn't be liable as it is not labeled as a suitable oil. He did verify that T4 and T6 are 100% certified and suitable for use in any Japanese motorcycle that requires oil within the viscosity range on the bottles and that it is not just "Diesel Engine" oil.
Hmmmmm. Not unlike my own Q & A as I remembered and posted in Post # 20 above:

"Don't remember the exact question or its answer, but . . . I do remember I received a credible response from an oil company representative. I think I asked Shell why some Rotella oils were JASO-MA, and some were not. I THINK the answer was, the non-JASO-MA oils simply had not been tested to those standards (although I think the inference was the lubricants would meet or exceed them)."

Glad you received information from, "The horse's mouth!"

:)
 
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