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Hello, just popped to this forum :)
Looking for info on what i should do, currently i have 87 klr 650 and if i keep the bike i would love to get tad more power out of it. I was thinking of 705+ big bore kits but i think i would need to source the head from US and i live in Finland. So pretty much the question is should i just go with something like 685 and maybe cams and little porting or what. I dont know how much exactly the elephant makes to wheels but if internet provides right data it would be around 30-34hp rear and i would like to reach that 40hp mark but still biggest performance upgrade for me is to get fit :p but yeh justa asking others opinion to this age old question.

Thanks in advance and hello from newbie on forum.
 

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The 1995 & earlier cylinder liners are TOO Thin at the base to be safely overbore to any thing beyond 661cc. 1996 & newer cylinders (with thicker liners) will fit our OLD engines and can be safely overbored to 692cc.
The most popular overbore size for 1996 & up cylinders is 685cc, which is 2.5mm over standard & still allows one additional oversize if ever the need be.

To go over 692cc, ones needs a 1996 & up cylinder and then have an even thicker cylinder sleeve installed into it After enlarging its opening and clearancing the water jacket around it! More parts, more labor, more money, not really worth it to most people.

Due to parts access and possibly dependant upon available higher octane fuel, like 95 MON, a Wossener 11:1 compression piston kit, in 101.0mm size & proper cylinder head porting and valve seat re-conditioning and opening up the top of the air filter box may be just the ticket for more power at a reasonable price in your homeland.

Even the stock 651cc engine can make 40+ HP with proper attention to details, as seen here, (click on the graphs) https://www.klrchris.com/ (Also click on any BOLDED items.) like air box mod

A few more mods gets a few more HP, https://www.klrchris.com/klr650-small-port-head/

klrchris had to of built his 1st set of the adjustable camshaft gears earlier in this project or for another customers bike, by the HP readings in this section.
https://www.klrchris.com/klr650-adjustable-cam-gear/
With sprocket cores exchanged, they are quite affordable and probably a wiser & cheaper single item purchase than a loud pipe, imo. But shipping cores from Finland may not be justifiable.


Of course it would be a complete waste of time, energy & money to allow a couple parts worth less than $50 USD to destroy a rebuilt engine. Are you aware of the engine Balancer Chain adjuster & spring issues? AKA the Doo-Hickey.
Here is a complete expose-ay with videos, https://www.souperdoo.com/stuff that i think about/doohickey

Have FUN and looking forward to reading about your rebuild in these pages. :)
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Yes, i still need to order new doohickey, checked the old already since i had to change gaskets, inner side from flywheel was broken. The spring on the tensioner is rly a joke :D

Edit: also i have read a lot about the subject but i like to gather opinions :)
2nd edit: i thought i would add that i have thrown the airbox away already and have giant airfilter in place, but i need to find new muffler, yes, it does flow great, but it flows so great that i can be heard to the other side of town :D

3rd edit: i just keep getting more stuff on my head, do you think is it worth it to get bigger front end on the bike or just better stuff inside those small tubes. I have seen both and people say both are good options but what do you think. I like to have pretty stiff ride so i cant but hate the suspension at the moment. Thats propably first thing i want to change and maybe new wheels since i want to turn it into supermoto rather than traveler but still keep the big tank for possible trips.
 

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Ditto on Paul's comments on the power issue, if the bike runs well and doesn't burn oil, I'd do the usual mods (KLX jet kit, air filter, snorkle-ectomy and/or L mod, silencer of choice) which gets you to 37hp or so.... If it needs a rebuild, the 685 will get you another 2-4 but you'll need a post-'96 cylinder. porting, cams, etc. etc. can boost power but it quickly becomes a point of diminishing returns IMO.

On the suspension, the stock 39mm tubes aren't that big compared to more modern offerings, but that isn't that important IMO; the bigger issue is the damper rod setup and it's very poor damping curve....coupled with the stock Gen1's inadequate springrate. I recommend Cogent's DDC kit https://www.motocd.com/product/ddc-complete-package/ which completely transforms the fork action. Second choice would be Racetech's Cartridge Emulators and springs but they take more work to install.....there are other options but it goes downhill from there.

Plenty of people have done KLR fork swaps but there are many issues to consider and it isn't easy or cheap; with the DDC kits, I am very pleased with the front suspension functionality on my Gen1's. For a Supermoto, I'd consider adding a fork brace (Eaglemike's is my recommendation)

Cheers,
Dave
 

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an older post I made on the KLR fork swap issue:

Several things, the biggest is a new front wheel/hub and brake system. As I told you in that other thread, there is no free ride and the USD fork conversion has it's own set of issues to deal with.... Not saying there isn't an allure to it just that there are good reasons more folks don't do it. When I did the math prior to making the decision to stick with the stock forks and go with Cogent's DDC's, my total came to $2,000 - $2,500 for the USD fork conversion vs. about $350.00 and less than an hour for the Cogent stuff.

After the additional expense, fork rebuilding, respringing, revalving, dealing with the rear suspension travel issue, gauge cluster, speedo, turning radius issues......you still have a smaller hub with a smaller axle, smaller bearings and when compared to the SV caliper 320mm rotor mod, a much smaller brake caliper, pad and rotor......all of which are fine for MX use and less fine for dual sport use.

There is no doubt as to the superiority of the modern MX fork.....but unless you have it resprung and revalved properly, it isn't going to work as good as a set of DDC's and springs in the stock forks.......and even if you do those things, the rest of the KLR isn't up to making full use of them anyhow.

I'm just making you aware of all the issues; if you still want to do it after all that, knock yourself out.
 

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With (a) 5th posting, this thread should move into the 'Recent Discussions' column and you will get better answers about your desired suspension action & steering precision while on hard-pack or asphalt highways from guys like Maverick9611. Dave Pelletier is more of an off-highway guy, but I'm sure his bikes would still hustle down a twisty piece of asphalt even on knobby tires and pots in gravel roads would just almost disappear.

I hope that you enjoy Exploring all sections of the klrchris and souperdoo sites, they are a treasure trove of KLR information.

ps, I really don't Type. And Dave has already found this. :)
 

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The most popular overbore size for 1996 & up cylinders is 685cc, which is 2.5mm over standard & still allows one additional oversize if ever the need be.
Just for information only: What is the source/availability and size of the, "one additional oversize," piston and ring set for a 685?
 

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With (a) 5th posting, this thread should move into the 'Recent Discussions' column and you will get better answers about your desired suspension action & steering precision while on hard-pack or asphalt highways from guys like Maverick9611. Dave Pelletier is more of an off-highway guy, but I'm sure his bikes would still hustle down a twisty piece of asphalt even on knobby tires and pots in gravel roads would just almost disappear.

I hope that you enjoy Exploring all sections of the klrchris and souperdoo sites, they are a treasure trove of KLR information.

ps, I really don't Type. And Dave has already found this. :)
Thanks; yes my usage and experience is heavily offroad biased. That said, my bike do very well on pavement though they aren't optimised for it and several people that run mainly pavement have posted similar positive experience with the Cogent upgrades - ultimately good suspension is good everywhere though it may be more noticeable offroad.

Dave
 

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Just for information only: What is the source/availability and size of the, "one additional oversize," piston and ring set for a 685?
Well I did say that 692cc was the largest to fit the '96 & up sleeve so that is 3mm over-standard from the 100mm bore.

The most commonly used source for these JE manufactured brand pistons is Eagle Mike in California, USA.
Starting with the 661 piston for the 87-95 thin sleeved cylinders. https://www.eaglemike.com/KLR650-2007-and-earlier_c2.htm
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
You can change the title if you want and btw dont take me too seriously since i sometimes might ask few stupid questions :) im mostly asking opinions but few advices are always welcome. Might be that i dont touch the cylinder but do head and maybe cams, only time will show. I propably will order wheels from US in month or two since i would need to rebuild these ones anyway and need new rubbers etc. Kinda sad that these arent that common bikes around here. Really hard to find used parts, pretty much just new parts are available here and i cant find even new wheels for this one and rebuilding these to 17inch size would cost almost the same as i would order wheels from US. I still have a lot to do before i can really do any performance upgrades. And btw i can do pretty much everything that requires hands so it isnt that big of a problem, also i know someone who has machining stuff so i could make new triples propably but i think i will just rebuild this front end with better springs and damping stuff. I think i could bench this thing after i get it ready for summer so i have baseline and know what i want from it really. But imma continue working on the bike for lil more time and prob post lil more of my stupid questions when i get back to pc :)
 

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... i sometimes might ask few stupid questions :) ...
While it is not universally true, I will observe that there are seldom stupid questions. Plenty of times there are stupid answers.

You're not asking stupid questions. We'll try not to provide stupid answers ;^).
 
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What would be fun would be to start a thread to collect stupid answers.

If I was a real dick I'd do that.

Oh, wait...
 
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There are as mentioned above a few weak areas that are easy to correct; the balancer lever (doohickey), and for the pre '96 KLR650 motors, the balancer sproclets. These early KLR motors used a spring-loaded impact reducer that is also prone to failure.

I strongly recommend replacing those two items with the balancer sprockets from a '96 or later. Net new pieces from the dealer run about $220 but you can typically get them off ebay ('96 or later) for $30-50.

It seems tedious -but with good maintenance and proper oil levels, even the '87 is capable of 70-100,000 miles.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Currently has 40k in clock but i doubt thats all of it :p tho i did manage to snatch new muffler for the bike, found yoshimura rs-3 for good price since i dont like that people from other side of town know where im heading :D checking valves this week and so on and i will propably order the doohickey soonish, the old one is still intact and didnt see any damages on it, the spring like said was a joke tho :D

Edit: also i havent read about the sv650 brake upgrade but what i understood its just basic caliper relocation bracket stuff ? also is there any easy way to put 320mm rotor to its place on the hub without too much headache, havent googled this subject yet :)

There are as mentioned above a few weak areas that are easy to correct; the balancer lever (doohickey), and for the pre '96 KLR650 motors, the balancer sproclets. These early KLR motors used a spring-loaded impact reducer that is also prone to failure.

I strongly recommend replacing those two items with the balancer sprockets from a '96 or later. Net new pieces from the dealer run about $220 but you can typically get them off ebay ('96 or later) for $30-50.

It seems tedious -but with good maintenance and proper oil levels, even the '87 is capable of 70-100,000 miles.
 

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Edit: also i havent read about the sv650 brake upgrade but what i understood its just basic caliper relocation bracket stuff ? also is there any easy way to put 320mm rotor to its place on the hub without too much headache, havent googled this subject yet :)
I have done the SV upgrade on both my KLR's. Eaglemike has most of what you need: SV caliper relocation bracket, EBC 320mm rotor (if you source one elsewhere be forewarned that there are two for the KLR and one has reported fitment issues), SS braided brake line. The SV caliper (it is actually used on a great many bikes including the KLR-B) can usually be found on ebay for a reasonable price. Last pce of the puzzle is the "dime mod" in which you insert a dime into the plunger bore between the plunger and lever to place the lever in a better position. These things together take the Gen1 KLR's front brake from dangerous to downright decent and surpasses the performance of the stock Gen2 twin piston front by a fair margin.

Dave
 

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Yes, i still need to order new doohickey, checked the old already since i had to change gaskets, inner side from flywheel was broken. The spring on the tensioner is rly a joke :D
i will propably order the doohickey soonish, the old one is still intact and didnt see any damages on it, the spring like said was a joke tho :D

Edit: also i havent read about the sv650 brake upgrade but what i understood its just basic caliper relocation bracket stuff ? also is there any easy way to put 320mm rotor to its place on the hub without too much headache, havent googled this subject yet :)
The original 1984-1986 KLR600 and 1987-199? KLR650 oem doo-hickey extension spring was intended to Only remove the slack from the balancer chain system, not Tension It.
The problems started because of LACK of proper information in the owners manuals & service manuals (which people don't read anyways) which should have instructed the mechanics to turn the engine CCW to the TDC assembly point to get the chain slack & balance weights on the proper side, for the slack to be removed. (We used to only adjust our Manual Cam Chain tensioners at one specific point of crankshaft rotation, on other engines. Usually TDC of #1 cylinder for multi-cylinder engines.)

If this was not done & it usually wasn't by most, with the weights hanging on the wrong side of the system an attempted adjustment would introduce More slack into the system, instead of removing slack, because of the very light, early Gen1 springs.
Yes it is/was so small & light that a broken early Gen1 spring can pass OUT of the 12mm oil drain plug hole!


As to the 320mm brake disc, most reputable companies that sell them also sell a caliper re-location Bracket to operate perfectly with the standard single piston caliper. Works great for most of us slower Dual-Sport style riders and you can still up-grade to an SV650 caliper & bracket later.
https://www.happy-trail.com/find-your-bike/kawasaki/klr650a-87-07/brakes.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Oh, didnt know warp 9 discs fit oem hub too. Also i think i will get someone to lace wider/smaller rims cause sumo :p i was throwing around numbers and went i think i will just get old ones laced, sometimes sucks to live in EU :p looking at u VAT >:| not saying these dont brign any good things too tho. Btw is the torsion spring so much better that i should get one for doohickey or does the basic spring do its job ? Thinking of ordering the one from mike or somewhere else as i also want risers for rear and apparently those would stiffen the rear litle bit cause of the geometry. Atleast if i dont make ones myself :p wouldnt be too big of a thing to do. I was wondering why couldnt i post until i noticed i had ur link in the quote :brick:



 
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