Kawasaki KLR Forum banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
OK, my '08 was having problems starting. I hit the button, it makes a growling noise but the engine is not spinning over. I look through the top inspection port on the left side and the mag rotor is not spinning. I pull the left cover off. The starter is spinning but the "starter idle gear limiter" is slipping (back gear is spinning from the starter turning it, front gear is not spinning). I realize I need a new one.

Upon further inspection if the inside, I find very thin wire pieces stuck to the rotor and magnetic pick up sensor inside the cover. The pieces look like a spring but they're not the doohickey spring. The doo is very much intact. These pieces are WAY smaller. The loops are .250" (+/-) in dia., the wire is .012" dia. Could these be springs out of the Starter Idle Gear Limiter? Maybe a roller clutch of some type with springs and rollers similar to a one way "Bendix" clutch? :confused:

I have a new limiter on the way, just don't want to go through this again.

BTW, the doohickey spring has good tension (gaps between the coils) and pulls the doohickey to the left smartly when pryed over and released.

Has anyone else out there had problems with the starter idle gear limiter slipping? Common or uncommon problem? :46:

Any ideas out there? Please let me know!

Slim40
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Wire pieces

Sounds like you're on the right track. Pull the rotor along with everything else. There's a one-way in the large gear too. Slippage is prob due to damage already caused. Oil change when you're done. Patience...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,263 Posts
I'm stumped on the origin of the spring-like material. I would be investing in a magnetic oil drain plug....
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,534 Posts
I faintly remember reading of a problem such as yours in another forum and can't find it to pass along. It was that one of these gears was allowed to run too far into the bores of the sidecase causing disengagement. The fix was to put a piece of teflon into the bottom of the bore relocating the gear where it needs to be. If the sidecase is chewed up here that is likely the source of the debris found.





http://www.klr650.marknet.us/doohickey.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks Flash for the reply.

Thanks Flash for the reply. I don't think this is the problem I have. The gears are in alignment with one another. The debris I found is steel (stuck to magnet) and was uniform in diameter. They were not aluminum shavings and I found no damage to the inside of the case.

The "starter idle gear limiter" is a multi-piece unit (not machined from one solid piece). It appears that the back gear that engages the starter shaft has an inner, seperate piece. Looks like the outer piece with the gear teeth is pressed onto this inner part with something in between the two. This appears to be where the slippage is occuring.

As I noted, I have a new unit on the way. For $106 + shipping, I want to make sure I get it right the first time. Don't want to go through this again.

I will post my findings after the new unit is installed. I am curious enough that I will disassemble the old unit to see what and how it works. May involve some level of distructive disassembly! :50:

Thanks for your input!

Slim40
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,534 Posts
Sorry, too much time on my hands and too much coffee plus I'm staying at a Holiday Inn and feeling really smart. I see now, it's a sprag clutch to the rest of the world.

Post up some pics of the new and old ones. It would be interesting to see and possibly know why it failed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Dr. Frankenstein, IT LIVES!

Got the new starter idler gear limiter via the Big Brown Bus. Drained oil, pulled cover, replaced gear, put it all back together, poured oil in and VIOLA'! It starts like it's supposed to!

Put the old unit in the vise and gripped one of the gears with a pair if large channel locks and it slips/spins MUCH easier that I would have thought. Not sure if it is supposed to spin at all or not. Don't have time tonight but plan to disassemble this in the next few days and let you know what's inside.

All for now....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
OK, here's the pics of the "limiter"!

I tried to pull the starter gear off with a gear puller, nuthin' doin'! Out comes the cut off wheel and sparks fly. Here's what I found. The gear that is engaged with the starter fits over a tapered race that has a sleeve in between. There are some wavy washer springs down between the gears, I suppose that these keep the starter gear pushed up on the taper to create the friction fit.

I have also included a pic of the spring wire pieces I found inside. I never found any other pieces even during the second case removal to install the new limiter.

Any ideas?

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Could these pieces be.....

the spring from the KACR (auto compression release)? I've noticed that when the engine is cold, it will crank for a second then hesitate like a compression lock. It will then continue to crank and start normally. It does not do this when the engine is warm. I'm wondering if the KACR is not releasing the compression like it should. By the pic in my Clymer manual, the spring on the KACR appears to be the same approximate size of the pieces I found.

I know I will need to remove the cam cover to check this. I will probably do so this coming weekend.

Has anyone had an issue with the spring on the KACR breaking and/or coming apart?

:(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Found what the extra pieces are!

OK, my hunch was correct! I pulled the seat/fairings/tank and the cam cover. There at the end of the exhaust cam right next to the KACR device was the shreaded remains of the spring. By the way it was cranking over when it was cold, I thought this might be the problem. I had ordered a new spring (only $4 from local dealer) to have on hand just in case this was the problem.

It makes sense why the starter limiter went bad. Excessive compression was causing the limiter to slip. After slipping for awhile, the limiter finally gave out and slipped all the time.

Ahhh Haaa!!:62:

I pick up the new spring tomorrow along with a magnetic drain plug.

Here's what I found.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
So how did the KACR spring pieces migrate all the way to the mag rotor? It seems like this would mean there is a good chance that there may be more pieces of this spring in other parts of the engine. I suppose the timing chain may have carried pieces of the spring down into the bottom end?

Dave
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
How they got there...

There is a small oil drain hole right below the KACR to drain any oil from the cam back to the crankcase. The parts in the near above pic were stuck there in the head. The pieces I found in the lower end were very small pieces which could have passed down through the drain hole. By counting the spring coils on the new spring and comparing to what's left of the old spring, it appears that I've retrieved all of the old spring.

We'll see.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
A buddy and I went to look at a 2008 KLR650 Today and it didnt sound right when starting, almost sounded like the decompression wasnt working, kept us from bringing it home with us. The guy told my buddy the tires had another 2K miles left on them over the phone, they were so bald in the middle the front was sliding in the turns when each of us test rode it. The seat was dry rotted in the seams and it may have been leaking alittle oil, I couldnt tell were it was coming from. BTW This bike had 9200 miles on it and had to have been left out a few days more than I ever will. Glad to see you found the problem, this thread will help others that may encounter the same symptoms in the future. Thank You
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Starter noise

My 2008 KLR is making a starter noise. I did the deep hole fix but I think I waited too long and the damage is already done. I am going to remove the valve cover and check my compression relief spring. Thanks for posting this it at least gives me a place to start looking.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top