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Discussion starter · #61 ·
No, I've never compared a GenII lever to an older one, but I compared the replacement I put on to the one that came off (it's now on my key ring) and, although I don't have access to advanced metallurgical testing, the aftermarket replacement was of noticeably higher standards as far as dimensions and machining. Is it any better? I don't really know. Looked like it was, though, but maybe looks were it. The spring that was on it looked like something I could pick up for .65 cents at Lowe's to use on my lawnmower.

No, aside from comments of people on this site who commented on their spring when they took it off, I have no evidence of any failures in GenII bikes. I should have looked to see what bike we were talking about before I spouted off about the doohickey.
 
No, I've never compared a GenII lever to an older one, but I compared the replacement I put on to the one that came off (it's now on my key ring) and, although I don't have access to advanced metallurgical testing, the aftermarket replacement was of noticeably higher standards as far as dimensions and machining. Is it any better? I don't really know. Looked like it was, though, but maybe looks were it. The spring that was on it looked like something I could pick up for .65 cents at Lowe's to use on my lawnmower.

No, aside from comments of people on this site who commented on their spring when they took it off, I have no evidence of any failures in GenII bikes. I should have looked to see what bike we were talking about before I spouted off about the doohickey.

I want to play!

I haven't heard of Gen 2 doo levers breaking the way the Gen 1s did. The lever is improved the spring no.

Consider the purpose of the doo, it's the balancer chain tensioner. The balancer (for those who don't know) is a chain driven mechanism to smooth out the single cylinder's vibrations. The doo keeps tension on the chain so it doesn't flop around and destroy itself.

The common observation is that the OEM spring doesn't have sufficient tension to adjust the doo. The adjustment only happens when the bolt holding the doo is loosened. Now if the spring doesn't have tension and the bolt is loosened the doo won't move and chain slack isn't taken up. The result is more vibration and after a point damage to the balancer system.

The real problem with the OEM spring is that it can break loose and start roaming around the motor. So from a reliability standpoint the spring should be replaced. Your choice to change it out in your garage at your leisure or after it breaks and deal with the aftermath.
 
Why, from testimonials from this and other KLR forums. The bracket is pretty much cured. Just the spring remains an issue. I have only run across brackets being broken in Gen1 units. Lots and lots of gen1 doohicky photos showing broken doohickys. I haven't seen the first one from a Gen2. Lots of posts about 2008 oil burners......not so much those before and after. Forums ARE where complai ts will surface. You aren't going to hand me the line that goes something like, the very facts that there have been no complaints is in itself a problem??
The Gen2 OEM bracket is better than the GEN1 but it still has issues with fit. A broken lever is not the only problem a lever that will not adjust because it is stuck / jammed / bound is. You are correct about the spring and I an really surprised that Kawasaki has not corrected the problem by making the spring shorter. Maybe they know if they shorten the spring the lever could bind / jam / stick.

Be careful where you get your information. Just because something looks good does not mean it is good.

Surprises me that we find KLRistas that will spend $400 on a muffler that will create additional expenses but hesitate to spens $35 on something known and proven to to be correct with no additional costs.
 
The Gen2 OEM bracket is better than the GEN1 but it still has issues with fit. A broken lever is not the only problem a lever that will not adjust because it is stuck / jammed / bound is. You are correct about the spring and I an really surprised that Kawasaki has not corrected the problem by making the spring shorter. Maybe they know if they shorten the spring the lever could bind / jam / stick.

Be careful where you get your information. Just because something looks good does not mean it is good.

Surprises me that we find KLRistas that will spend $400 on a muffler that will create additional expenses but hesitate to spens $35 on something known and proven to to be correct with no additional costs.

+1. Even though the Gen 2 doo is better than the Gen 1 doo, since you have to go there to replace the spring anyway, why not replace the doo itself with a demonstrably better product anyway while replacing the spring (hopefully with the torsion spring)?

As for the Thermo Bob, before having it installed on my '09, I could sit at a red light and watch my temperature gauge go up and up in just 2 minutes. I mean above the 3/4 line from about 1/3 up the scale in that short a time. With the 'Bob installed, it warms up faster and stays down even when sitting at a red light. I've been perfectly happy with it and while some wouldn't put it in the "must do" class like the doohickey, it's right up there behind the doo for me. Personal opinion only, but that's my experience.

As for the .22 cent mod, not being much of a mechanic, it seems to me that the effects will vary significantly depending on the altitude you normally operate at. Someone in L.A., San Francisco or Vancouver (sea level) would see a different result than someone in Colorado or Flagstaff, for instance. Am I wrong in this assumption? The air is significantly different at altitude and we're dealing with the air/fuel mixture here...
 
As for the Thermo Bob, before having it installed on my '09, I could sit at a red light and watch my temperature gauge go up and up in just 2 minutes. I mean above the 3/4 line from about 1/3 up the scale in that short a time. With the 'Bob installed, it warms up faster and stays down even when sitting at a red light. I've been perfectly happy with it and while some wouldn't put it in the "must do" class like the doohickey, it's right up there behind the doo for me. Personal opinion only, but that's my experience.

As for the .22 cent mod, not being much of a mechanic, it seems to me that the effects will vary significantly depending on the altitude you normally operate at. Someone in L.A., San Francisco or Vancouver (sea level) would see a different result than someone in Colorado or Flagstaff, for instance. Am I wrong in this assumption? The air is significantly different at altitude and we're dealing with the air/fuel mixture here...
Glad you like your ThermoBob, dbrewerton, but--I'm wondering; How does the Termo-Bob enhance engine cooling, as you experience? Even the developer, Watt-man, has said, after the thermostat opens, you are at the mercy of water pump coolant circulation and radiator air flow alone for cooling, Thermo-Bob or none. Did your KLR ever overheat (i.e.,, boil coolant, temperature gauge beyond red zone) before you installed your Thermo-Bob?

Regarding the 22-cent mod, while the density of air (and the number of oxygen molecules per unit volume) varies with altitude, a CV carburetor exploits this characteristic somewhat to compensate for altitude operation (i.e., at altitude, the less dense air creates less "vacuum" (presure differential) from intake air flow, and thus does not raise the slide and needle (uncovering the needle and main jets) as high as at sea level with the same intake are velocity).

A CV-carbureted engine, excessively fuel-lean from the factory at sea level, is likely fuel-lean to some extent still atop Pike's Peak. Atop Mount Everest? We may be approaching stoichiometric combustion, there!

If you are satisfied with your carburetor's operation and throttle response, and do not want to perform the 22-cent mod, avoid it by all means.

Still, I would be interested in the mechanism whereby the Thermo-Bob enhances cooling during operation in high ambient temperature environments.
 
...for English press 1...
Regrets if I exceeded your comprehension level, TC; will look for a Hooked On Phonics set for you, next time I visit a thrift store . . . :)

Just joking; I'll try to simplify:

After the thermostat opens, how does a Thermo-Bob cool an engine any more than the water pump and radiator cool it already?

Since a KLR carburetor admits less fuel to the mixture at altitude than at sea level, I'd imagine an engine too fuel-lean at sea level would still be somewhat fuel-lean at a higher elevation. The 22-cent mod might be useful and effective in obtaining a more optimum air/fuel ratio in both cases (CAVEAT: No 22-cent modification encouraged without consent of both bike and rider.)
 
Regrets if I exceeded your comprehension level, TC; will look for a Hooked On Phonics set for you, next time I visit a thrift store . . . :)

Just joking; I'll try to simplify:

After the thermostat opens, how does a Thermo-Bob cool an engine any more than the water pump and radiator cool it already?

Since a KLR carburetor admits less fuel to the mixture at altitude than at sea level, I'd imagine an engine too fuel-lean at sea level would still be somewhat fuel-lean at a higher elevation. The 22-cent mod might be useful and effective in obtaining a more optimum air/fuel ratio in both cases (CAVEAT: No 22-cent modification encouraged without consent of both bike and rider.)
For an explanation you can contact the engineer that designed and manufactures the Thermo-Bob or you can go to his webpage where the information is or contact the 500+ (guessing, probably more) KLRistas that are using them and ask the users opinion. The Thermo-Bob is like a very good meal. No need to question the meal just enjoy the satisfaction and benefits.
 
For an explanation you can contact the engineer that designed and manufactures the Thermo-Bob or you can go to his webpage where the information is or contact the 500+ (guessing, probably more) KLRistas that are using them and ask the users opinion. The Thermo-Bob is like a very good meal. No need to question the meal just enjoy the satisfaction and benefits.
Cool, except . . . Watt-man, "the engineer that designed and manufactures the Thermo-Bob," himself says you are at the mercy of the water pump coolant circulation and radiator air flow alone, after the thermostat opens, whether a Thermo-Bob is isntalled or not.

If you (and 500 or more Thermo-Bob users) believe the Thermo-Bob increases cooling capacity beyond a stock system after the thermostat opens, TC, I just wonder how this "benefit" occurs.

While the Thermo-Bob thermostat's diameter is greater than that of the OEM's, the restrictive original plumbing remains; thus, I doubt the thermostat size is significant in this application.

The Thermo-Bob manufacturer makes no claim the device provides cooling capacity beyond that of the OEM water pump and radiator, AFAIK. If asking how the Thermo-Bob cools the engine beyond stock capability, after thermostat opening, offends and/or seems unfair, consider my question withdrawn, TC.

If, besides stabilizing coolant temperature more fully and at a higher temperature than the OEM system, the Thermo-Bob also increases cooling capacity, I salute fully this benefit. I'd just like to know how this benefit is achieved.
 
The Thermobob is good for stabilization only. This would lead me to believe that if the temperature swings high at a stop light, then it would continue to do so after the Thermobob is added. If this is NOT the case, then something else is in play. The Thermobob cannot increase cooling capacity. If the scenario I suggest does exist where the gauge no longer sits near the low side, nor does it tend to rise to the high at stops, then this engine barely needs water cooling. What it would suggest to me is that water is almost never circulating through the engine. It suggests circulation is only occurring when conditions move the needle on the gauge to the high side. So if the Thermobob provides a constant bypass, and it is running a warmer thermostat, the combination will keep the temperature more stable. It has NOT increased capacity, it is avereraging the peaks and valleys. This may have benefit where the metal is concerned, but I have seen nothing to prove or disprove this case. There are cases where constant thermal swings and hydraulic shock (water hammer) can cause issues.....but how much this applies to the KLR is unknown.

As before, do what eases your mind. I certainly do not see any harm coming from installing one.
 
This has been an interesting thread, and Planalp has brought up questions I would have asked as well. I have done the doo, added ThermoBob, and just did the slide drill and needle washer mod yesterday morning.
I haven't done a lot of miles since, and realistically not a lot of miles before. I've had my 08 since March, my first bike in 10-12 years.
The change from yesterday's mods don't feel to me like they add up to a lot. The most noticeable to me is that I'm smoother leaving stops with less need to slip the clutch while getting underway. Huge change? No. Good change? Yes.

As always, YMMV.

Dave
 
Surely, you jest!

If I understand you correctly, you have no evidence of Generation II doohickey failures, right?Just between us, have you ever examined a Generation II doohickey, planalp? Compared it with the previous part?

Again, I know of no failures of the new component, a product in service now for four model years; if you know of any, I'd be interested to read about 'em.
Actually, if you check out Eagle Mikes web site he has pictures of all of the various versions of the Doohickey. He has posted them including pictures of some broken doos (gen??) as well. If they aren't there, e-mail him and he'll send the pictures to you, I'm sure. There are 4 different versions IIFC. The latest one still doesn't match up to the quality of the EM doo and the spring is certainly still deficient. If you're taking your engine apart to replace the spring, why not replace the doo with a better one while you're there? I certainly believe that Kawi changed the doo in the gen2 because of what's happened in the past. What I really can't believe is that they STILL screwed up the springs that go with it. What they really should have done is to license the EM doo from Eagle Mike and installed that in all of the gen2 bikes from the get go.
 
This has been an interesting thread, and Planalp has brought up questions I would have asked as well. I have done the doo, added ThermoBob, and just did the slide drill and needle washer mod yesterday morning.
I haven't done a lot of miles since, and realistically not a lot of miles before. I've had my 08 since March, my first bike in 10-12 years.
The change from yesterday's mods don't feel to me like they add up to a lot. The most noticeable to me is that I'm smoother leaving stops with less need to slip the clutch while getting underway. Huge change? No. Good change? Yes.

As always, YMMV.

Dave
Hi Dave, and welcome aboard. Don't drink the Kool Aid, and question everything.
 
Actually, if you check out Eagle Mikes web site he has pictures of all of the various versions of the Doohickey. He has posted them including pictures of some broken doos (gen??) as well.
Your parenthetic, "gen??" speaks to the heart and core of my question, brewerton: Does anyone possess evidence of latter-day doohickey failure? That is, "Generation II, or model year 2008 or later documented failure.

I've seen pictures of broken doohickeys also; but--not, to my knowledge, an image of an '08 or later doohickey failure. Not to say such failures do not exist; only--ain't heard tell nor seen any evidence of one.
 
Your parenthetic, "gen??" speaks to the heart and core of my question, brewerton: Does anyone possess evidence of latter-day doohickey failure? That is, "Generation II, or model year 2008 or later documented failure.

I've seen pictures of broken doohickeys also; but--not, to my knowledge, an image of an '08 or later doohickey failure. Not to say such failures do not exist; only--ain't heard tell nor seen any evidence of one.
Doesn't need to be broken. Have you ever seen a lever stuck to the case? Many of the Gen2 levers have been stuck to teh case and not functioning.

Dam do you attend tech days or just post from what you read? Field work has its rewards.
 
I have an 09 and replaced my Doo and spring with one of EM's last year. The Doo itself was not broken, however it was very loose on the shaft. The spring is a total different story. The stock spring was actually floating around in the engine. It was way to long and fell out when I removed the inner cover from the case.

I agree that the gen2 Doos need to be checked and/or replaced and this is from my personal experience.
 
Discussion starter · #78 ·
Even with my replacement, I still lean the bike over to the right and whack the case with a soft deadblow hammer a few times when I adjust it. Don't know if it helps or not, but figure it can't hurt.
 
Even with my replacement, I still lean the bike over to the right and whack the case with a soft deadblow hammer a few times when I adjust it. Don't know if it helps or not, but figure it can't hurt.

Begs the question how do you know that the doo adjust actually did anything? There's not even a mention of the doo in the owners manual. The shop manual mentions backing off the bolt quite a bit if I remember right. There's no way externally to know that anything happened, just a faith thing I guess.

The whole thing is screwy, why should there be a manual adjustment for a chain tensioner? Why not an auto tensioner like the cam chain? How many owners (especially pre internet) have never adjusted it? I'm thinking the majority even now.
 
planalp was following EagleMike's instructions. Good job planalp.

As for the Kawi manual having instructios to adjust the lever... untl last year they did not ecognize there was a problem with the design.

Design, that is why there isn't an auto adjust. The KLR engine was designed pre 1984 with a low budget apparently.

People complain about the KLR and its lack of current times. A KLR is a KLR and if it does not meet there needs and standards they should try another dualsport. IMO the KLR did not have a 6.1 gallon fuel tank it would not have the following.
 
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