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Good friend of mine and a group of us were riding in the Arkansas hills last weekend ...

Dumped his low mileage bike in a river and filled the engine with water to a degree no one expected ... Got it cleaned out as much as possible (We were in the middle of no where) .... Added some fresh oil (not enough but no choice) and rode out of there ...

Rode 15 miles to closest gas station and drained the milky oil .. changed the oil and rode 25 miles back to camp. Arrived at camp and drained the entire thing again and refilled. Checked top end, it looked ok although there was a tick ...

We figured that it was a cam journal or journal cap and either way we could deal with it upon our return ...

Rode the entire next day without any drama (several hundred miles or so) ... All seemed well ..

Left for final day of riding the next morning. Ran about 20 miles and without warning, his rear tire locked at speed (About 60MPH) ... He rode (like a boss) the skid for about 400 feet and then low sided at low speed. He was unscathed ... Total and immediate engine lock ... Never seen anything like this before ...

We trailered the bikes back and began an engine teardown ...

We hoped to "fix" her. Wishful thinking but hey HOPE ...

In any event, this is what we found ... She has gone her last mile ... :frown2::frown2::frown2:

Anyone got a spare ? Or maybe some Krazy Glue ?
 

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Ouch; replacement motor is likely the easiest solution. BTW, I've had to fix "submarined" bikes many times.....some have been fine, some haven't though the worst was a top end rebuild due to sand/silt.

Dave
 

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So in this situation, I'd like to know what should have been done? Given that the bike went down in the river, where did they go wrong? Should they simply not have tried to start it, and had it towed out of there?
 

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So in this situation, I'd like to know what should have been done? Given that the bike went down in the river, where did they go wrong? Should they simply not have tried to start it, and had it towed out of there?
Me too. What could have been done to prevent this catastrophic failure?

Also, did you identify the component that locked up? Was it transmission related or???

Jason
 

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My guess would be that there was an attempt to start it while hydrolocked - this would have cracked the case and then it held together until it didn't.


Dave
 

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My guess would be that there was an attempt to start it while hydrolocked - this would have cracked the case and then it held together until it didn't.


Dave
Yeah, it makes sense. A crack was initiated and then grew with use.

But, I still can't figure out what caused the rear wheel to lock-up.

Jason
 

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So in this situation, I'd like to know what should have been done? Given that the bike went down in the river, where did they go wrong? Should they simply not have tried to start it, and had it towed out of there?
Hindsight is always 20/20 but in retrospect; pull the header and exhaust and empty. Pull the airbox cover and filter and wring out. Pull the spark plug and turn the bike upside down while turning it over a half dozen times.....alot easier with a 219 lb KTM200XC, I will admit! :grin2:


Dave
 

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Yeah, it makes sense. A crack was initiated and then grew with use.

But, I still can't figure out what caused the rear wheel to lock-up.

Jason
again, just a guess, but the crack allowed a shaft or related component to come into contact with something it isn't supposed too.....


Dave
 

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Agree, that damage could best be explained by hydro-lock.

I'm trying to map back how enough water was still in the case/bore after the two oil changes.

I'm thinking the airbox / filter coughed up a cup of h2o and the piston was forced to prove the liquid was in-compressible.

Otherwise, I find highly plausible the "most damage occurred on first restart after submarining" then case catastrophically failed when running down the road.
 

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Agree, that damage could best be explained by hydro-lock.

I'm trying to map back how enough water was still in the case/bore after the two oil changes.

I'm thinking the airbox / filter coughed up a cup of h2o and the piston was forced to prove the liquid was in-compressible.

Otherwise, the "most damage occurred on first restart after submarining" then case catastrophically failed when running down the road.
Yeah, I was thinking more of - they hit the starter fresh out of the water and then did the oil draining, etc. ......or it may even have locked up while running....not sure if that's even possible

Dave
 

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I would suspect that something came adrift in the transmission and let two pairs of gears engage at the same time, that would cause an instant lock up with enough force to crack the cases. Had it happen to an old YZ 250, destroyed the crankcases and threw me over the handlebars wide open in third gear. Not sure how going for a swim would cause the transmission to fail though. I suspect you are going to see some shattered gears and busted shift forks when you open it up. Hydro-lock will bend or bust the rod, which would probably lock it up, but you should see other evidence, like the rod sticking out of the front of the motor.

Cheers!

Jollidude
 

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Holy shit! This is good to know. Thanks all for the solid advice.


2018 KLR 650
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Clovis NM (till the AF moves me again)
 

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Not sure how going for a swim would cause the transmission to fail though. I suspect you are going to see some shattered gears and busted shift forks when you open it up. Hydro-lock will bend or bust the rod, which would probably lock it up, but you should see other evidence, like the rod sticking out of the front of the motor.

Cheers!

Jollidude
My thought was that instead of bending the rod, it broke the case by transmitting the energy through the rod/crank.....the broken case could then allow all kinds of movement that shouldn't happen, including the transmission....but who knows


Dave
 

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I mostly agree with Jollidude.

And I suspect that it may have been a broken gear dog from 3rd gear which got in between gear teeth and wedged the transmission shafts apart. Been several broken 3rd gear dogs posted on various forums.

The crankshaft turns CW, the transmission Input shaft turns CCW, which turns the transmission Output shaft CW. The breakage appears to support transmission failure which probably had nothing to do with the prior 'submarineing'.
 

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Doesn't the output shaft turn CCW? That's where the front sprocket mounts, right? CCW like the rear tire, from the (left) side of the bike where all this business resides…

Could an engine seize cause the rear tire to lock, simply by virtue of its being connected "in gear?"

I'm gathering that the moral of this story is, if you drop your bike in water, you better make sure the headers, exhaust, airbox, crankcase and combustion chamber are all clear of water before hitting the starter again. MrZappo, How deep was the water you guys dropped it in?
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Well, probably 2 to 2.5 feet. Let's just say that we exceeded the skill/age/depth/balls ratio a little.

I agree that everything is not adding up. It looks like a transmission failure but I still question if a piston seize could lock a tire up. It literally stopped spinning. Hard lock at speed. Smoking tires and a 300 to 400 foot skid.
 

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Doesn't the output shaft turn CCW? That's where the front sprocket mounts, right? CCW like the rear tire, from the (left) side of the bike where all this business resides…
Samuel, AS Viewed from the RH side of the engine, where the pics were taken. CW to CCW to CW.


Well, probably 2 to 2.5 feet. Let's just say that we exceeded the skill/age/depth/balls ratio a little.

I agree that everything is not adding up. It looks like a transmission failure but I still question if a piston seize could lock a tire up. It literally stopped spinning. Hard lock at speed. Smoking tires and a 300 to 400 foot skid.
Instinct tells us to pull in the clutch. Which would Dis-Engage the transmission from a seized Engine and allow the rear wheel to resume rolling.

But a seized Transmission can not be dis-engaged from the rear wheel. Dis-engaging from the engine would do nothing, the engine was already 'stalled'.
I would have bet that with the clutch squeezed, the engine would have re-started with the E-button, alongside the road.
 

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Thanks for the sanity check, pdw! I think you're right about the instinct to disengage the clutch, and I gather that you guys are certain the transmission is locked as well…
 

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This has been very educational. Bottom line, stay out of the water, or if you do make sure it get completely drained and dried out before attempting a restart?


2018 KLR 650
Mods in Progress
Clovis NM (till the AF moves me again)
 
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