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Discussion Starter #61
I think you're right, i think i did start modifying needles before i tried the KLX needle? Now you're telling me i didn't try it? seriously? i tried A LOT of things including the KLX needle.

my last post i agreed with pretty much everything you said, now you seem mad? wtf, is my only response.

you seem bound and determined to start something, not sure why. Your whole tone just screams JERK. Trying to catch me in some conspiracy or something? who gives a shit what order i did things in?

at a loss for words. You're entitled to disagree, you're even entitled to be a jerk, i'm not obligated to listen or take your tone..., back on ignore you go.


i wonder if anyone ever put a TM42-6 on a KLX, now THAT would be a beast.
As I recall from your original thread, you were filing & sanding your own mid-range jet needles Before you Ever even knew about the KLX needle, much less tried the KLX needle. That thread no-longer exists for any of us to double check statements.

I've never said that your kit doesn't work well or that it can't work well. I have said that I dis-agree with several of your theories about engine tempuratures, Radiator By-passes, the KLX jet needle and throttle slide travel.

You make statements and then you contra-dict those statements.
Quote from your FB link, " The klx needle solves the problem created by the stock needle that stops the slide from achieving full throttle, " end Quote

And this just a couple of hours ago, just up above.

Have you confirmed that with a bore scope viewing the throttle slide of a running engine with the air duct & air filter fully in-place?

Maybe your FB posting ought to be edited?
 

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Discussion Starter #62 (Edited)
In the case of the KLX needle, the amount you ahve to downsize the main jet causes the problem for the record. It can acheive full throttle , but then when the revs get higher it falls off due to the main.

stock needle can't hold full throttle at any time.

WHY, I ASK? the tone dude


As I recall from your original thread, you were filing & sanding your own mid-range jet needles Before you Ever even knew about the KLX needle, much less tried the KLX needle. That thread no-longer exists for any of us to double check statements.

I've never said that your kit doesn't work well or that it can't work well. I have said that I dis-agree with several of your theories about engine tempuratures, Radiator By-passes, the KLX jet needle and throttle slide travel.

You make statements and then you contra-dict those statements.
Quote from your FB link, " The klx needle solves the problem created by the stock needle that stops the slide from achieving full throttle, " end Quote

And this just a couple of hours ago, just up above.

Have you confirmed that with a bore scope viewing the throttle slide of a running engine with the air duct & air filter fully in-place?

Maybe your FB posting ought to be edited?
 

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Discussion Starter #64
one last thing, For those of you that don't know

sorry all for the multiple posts, but when i first arrived in this forum, i tried to use my introduction thread here for a photo journal for myself mostly. MY thread in the intro section. Was going to do a step by step etc. Also posted a thread in the wrenching section. Due to attitudes like this i deleted it and left, for a long time. I was banned, came back on a hidden handle but that ole smoothie tom wasn't fooled, anyway. I ran into this same attitude back then and lashed out and was banned. Fair enough, i did lash out.

My point is, i was in development, which means i was thinking out loud, trying different things. Was i wrong at times, absolutely, i righted my path more times than not, by proving the theories correct or incorrect.

I had to RE LEARN how to read plugs with the fuels of today, having been out of the industry for 15 years maybe. Did that catch me, sure. But i learned quickly.

ALL of this freely admitted now and back then.

and still i get this attitude. I'm sorry Paul, you sir are OUT OF LINE. Twisting things i say, repeating out of context, being an big jerk in general .... dude, grow up
 

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it is a really good question, and tbh the heat cycling will be a non issue with efi, the common perception of the cause of the heat cycling is flawed (in my not so humble opinion). What a thermo bypass would do for the EFI is the same as it does for an MCP fitted carb, Keep the head and the bottom of the cylinder the same temperature, transferring more heat into the cases.
Thanks for the comeback!

Now, confessing my profound ignorance regarding thermodynamics and fluid flow, how does EFI eliminate heat-cycling (truth-be-told, I'm unsure the magnitude and frequency of KLR heat-cycling damages KLR engines in the first place)? Regardless, I wonder at EFI's role in diminishing heat-cycling.

(I won't question how a radiator bypass keeps, "the head and the bottom or the cylinder at the same temperature." I've thought, after the thermostat opens, the bike is at the mercy of coolant circulation and air flow, radiator bypass or not (as in, no stratified engine temperatures in either case).
 

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Discussion Starter #67 (Edited)
Grant J,
I did NOT say any such thing.

ps, Glad to see your FB posting open for input.
Haven't changed a thing Paul


Thanks for the comeback!

Now, confessing my profound ignorance regarding thermodynamics and fluid flow, how does EFI eliminate heat-cycling (truth-be-told, I'm unsure the magnitude and frequency of KLR heat-cycling damages KLR engines in the first place)? Regardless, I wonder at EFI's role in diminishing heat-cycling.

(I won't question how a radiator bypass keeps, "the head and the bottom or the cylinder at the same temperature." I've thought, after the thermostat opens, the bike is at the mercy of coolant circulation and air flow, radiator bypass or not (as in, no stratified engine temperatures in either case).


The thermo bypass mod - to my surprise i recently learned what the initial intention was for its creation. I looked at the design and determined in my mind what it would do without learning what the original reason for it inception. This is the truest band aid there ever was, the engine would run cold when operating at low throttle openings (even in warm climates). The thermo bypass was added partially to try to keep the engine warm in this scenario. Don't get me wrong, the by pass is a great thing, but for a different reason.

In a properly functioning engine there is no need to have to try and make it run warmer if its running cleanly and efficiently. The problem is when a person is cruising NEAR that dead spot on the throttle, the engine is barely running and creates very little heat. This isn't a cooling system issue, Its a running issue. A running engine creates heat.

The design should be used for what it would be best at, evening out the temperature of the entire top end, and transferring more heat into the bottom end using the extra surface area to dissipate heat in warm climates, in cold climates the bottom end stays warmer helping reduce the likelihood of getting the cloudy oil window.

As far as the thermo shock causes warping, possible, in the stock configuration the bike cools off when putting around at low rpm, then you start givin it just a touch more and it re heats fast coming off the dead non running spot at the bottom of the throttle range. Can't be good for it. Then if you consider the direction of water flow coming in the bottom of the cylinder where little heat is created is where the COLD water comes in, makes sense to mix it with some warm to reduce the differential. This also transfers more heat to the bottom end to either be dissipated by the massive surface area OR helps keep it warm depending on riding conditions and ambient temperature.

The current available options need to be modified to do this properly but that is what the common sense application is for the design imo.

EFI shouldn't have that dead spot in the throttle, nor does MCP, runs clean, makes heat even in extreme cold.

You missed the entertainment Damocles, DIDN"T ya !! lo
 

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Discussion Starter #68
Maybe you were trying to post in the MCP riders group? Don't think you'er a member



Grant J,
I did NOT say any such thing.

ps, Glad to see your FB posting open for input.
 

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Discussion Starter #69 (Edited)
This is how I see it Dam (happens to be true also)

First the water pump can pump much more water than a fully open thermostat and by pass together can pass. Even when the thermostat opens fully, there is still some water flowing through theby pass line mixing with the incoming water, as i'm sure you know, the area between the water pump and the thermostat area are under direct pressure from the water pump, beyond the thermostat area is where the water pump draws from. The thermostat opens very slowly with a by pass installed, the constant flow through the engine ensures the thermostat reacts quickly and in a non drastic fashion because of the even temperatures.

When the thermostat initially opens it does so very slightly, the by pass line is still flowing MORE than the thermostat lets through initially, under higher loads the thermostat opens more. In all scenarios the by pass line is flowing water meaning it is being mixed directly with the incoming water, reducing the thermal shock.

Only in higher ambient temperatures and high loads does the thermostat open far enough to flow more water than by pass line. The bypass line never stops flowing.


How a person knows their existing by pass isn't functioning as intended:

1) bike runs the same or colder on the gauge even with the hotter thermostat that came with the current bypass mod you run. (both options do it)

2) you can watch the temperature gauge fall with either road speed or RPM or both.

3) bike still cools off at low rpm cruising just not as bad ( EFI Fixes this as does a certain carb kit)


G

Thanks for the comeback!

Now, confessing my profound ignorance regarding thermodynamics and fluid flow, how does EFI eliminate heat-cycling (truth-be-told, I'm unsure the magnitude and frequency of KLR heat-cycling damages KLR engines in the first place)? Regardless, I wonder at EFI's role in diminishing heat-cycling.

(I won't question how a radiator bypass keeps, "the head and the bottom or the cylinder at the same temperature." I've thought, after the thermostat opens, the bike is at the mercy of coolant circulation and air flow, radiator bypass or not (as in, no stratified engine temperatures in either case).
 

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[1.] EFI shouldn't have that dead spot in the throttle, nor does MCP, runs clean, makes heat even in extreme cold.
----------------------------------------------------------
[2] How a person knows they need to convert their existing by pass to the MCP bypass method is this:
1) bike runs the same or colder on the gauge even with the hotter thermostat that came with the current bypass mod you run. (both options do it)
2) you can watch the temperature gauge fall with either road speed or RPM or both.
3) bike still cools off at low rpm cruising just not as bad (carb kit fixes this)
The mcp by pass works best when combined with the MCP Carb Correction kit.
As to quotation 1., above: Understand within your theory, stock KLR and KLX needle-equipped KLR650 engines have, "dead spots" in their rpm regimes, but with MCP needles or (presumably) EFI, no "dead spots" exist. Don't know the cause and cure of, "dead spots," haven't been consciously aware of dead spots on my KLRs.

On to quotation # 2: Since 2022 KLRs have no temperature gauge, # 1: Coolant temperature unknown to the rider.
# 2: Same as comment on # 1. # 3: Well, guess the same as #1 and #2.

Summary: I think my original question applied to 2022 KLRs, asking how a rider of that model would know he wanted or needed a radiator bypass when unaware of the coolant temperature (no coolant temperature gauge). My suggestion (as stated): Sell 'em a temperature gauge with their radiator bypass! Package deal!
 

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Discussion Starter #71 (Edited)
That is a good idea for sure Damocles

I can already confirm, the next run of bypass blocks will include an additional port to add a temp gauge sender like this one below. so in theory, a person can just get the thermostat block and plug off the by pass port to JUST add a gauge.

Universal Motorcycle Digital Thermometer Instrument Water Temp Gauge Temperature Meter Blue LED Light, Switches - Amazon Canada

stellar

As far as the dead spots on your klr, try riding it at 2000-3000 rpm, the lower the better, you'll notice your bike will start running cold :), bypass or not. After all, a big single should have massive tractor abilities :). And again, thats what triggered the whole deal. A big single should be able to be ridden from 2000 or 2250 rpm n up. riding in 4th gear at 2250 rpm is very peaceful putting around. 30 mph putt in 4th, nice n quiet, good for sight seeing or school/playground zones. Once the dead spot is gone the bike will pull from idle up but that should really only be done in first.

G

As to quotation 1., above: Understand within your theory, stock KLR and KLX needle-equipped KLR650 engines have, "dead spots" in their rpm regimes, but with MCP needles or (presumably) EFI, no "dead spots" exist. Don't know the cause and cure of, "dead spots," haven't been consciously aware of dead spots on my KLRs.

On to quotation # 2: Since 2022 KLRs have no temperature gauge, # 1: Coolant temperature unknown to the rider.
# 2: Same as comment on # 1. # 3: Well, guess the same as #1 and #2.

Summary: I think my original question applied to 2022 KLRs, asking how a rider of that model would know he wanted or needed a radiator bypass when unaware of the coolant temperature (no coolant temperature gauge). My suggestion (as stated): Sell 'em a temperature gauge with their radiator bypass! Package deal!
 

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Discussion Starter #72 (Edited)
i just edited recent posts to reduce the appearance of plugging my stuff and focus on discussing theory.

anyone know if i can change my nickname?
 

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anyone know if i can change my nickname?
I think I could do that, Grant, but it is really not necessary.
 
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i just edited recent posts to reduce the appearance of plugging my stuff and focus on discussing theory.

anyone know if i can change my nickname?
Your name & business is in your signature line. You should be able to edit your signature line to include most of what you might wish for.
 
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I KNOW! I KNOW!

Sell CARBURETOR CONVERSION KITS to EFI 2022 KLR650 owners! (With "trick" needles, of course.)

Don't dismiss the idea: Carburetor conversion kits for EFI KTM 690s are marketed, today.

:)

EDIT: Afterthought: Throw in bolt-on temperature gauges and tachometers in the package; a way to increase cash flow.
 

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Discussion Starter #76
Yup, i can edit everything but my nickname. Tom says its a non issue so, i'll leave it.

i'll just focus on NOT floggin my wares here, discuss theory. For the record i did not get in trouble from anyone. I just respect that advertising isn't allowed and sometimes in my passion to make my point i forget that.

G

Your name & business is in your signature line. You should be able to edit your signature line to include most of what you might wish for.
 

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Discussion Starter #77 (Edited)
A tach now? and a carb conversion >? not askin much are ya Dam? lol

Damn good ideas though, and a natural progression for my business model tbh.

might be too expensive for the inexpensive KLR though hmm

G

I KNOW! I KNOW!

Sell CARBURETOR CONVERSION KITS to EFI 2022 KLR650 owners! (With "trick" needles, of course.)

Don't dismiss the idea: Carburetor conversion kits for EFI KTM 690s are marketed, today.

:)

EDIT: Afterthought: Throw in bolt-on temperature gauges and tachometers in the package; a way to increase cash flow.
 

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A tach now? and a carb conversion >? not askin much are ya Dam? lol

Damn good ideas though, and a natural progression for my business model tbh.

might be too expensive for the inexpensive KLR though hmm

G
Just to show I'm not kidding, here are 572 or so posts on a thread entitled, "690 R Carburetor Conversion Mod," or something like that:

 

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Too funny; all the whining over the years about the KLR having a carb and there a a bunch of KTM owners wanting to convert from EFI back to carbs! whooda thunk it?

Dave
 

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Too funny; all the whining over the years about the KLR having a carb and there a a bunch of KTM owners wanting to convert from EFI back to carbs! whooda thunk it?
Maybe, no laughing matter!

Future owners of yet-unborn 2022 and 2022 + KLRs may be standing in line for carburetor conversion kits!

Surely, at that time, some enterprising entrepreneur (anyone we know?) will fulfill this market demand with corresponding financial success!
 
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