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There is considerable misinformation provided by a certain member in this thread. For those that don't know, the original guy that came up with the ThermoBob is WattMan. He is a real life aerospace engineer. HE is also a gear head, built his own twin turbo fuel injected 1966 Mustang fastback that made the cover of a major car magazine, long before all the big guys were doing this.
He did a very large number of runs collecting data during testing on his KLR650. At this time he has over 180K miles on the original bore, rings, and piston. At 142K miles a 3rd gear dog broke in his engine. He took it all apart, and replaced the gear. He put it back together, using the original rings and piston, to see how long he could go. He's monitored his oil use, balancer and camshaft chain wear, doo movement, etc, since he got the bike. I measured the bore with a dial bore gauge when it was apart. The total deviation was .0011 top to bottom, and left/right. At 142K miles. As a side note, I've measured a OOT of cylinders, and never seen one without a ThermoBob gauge close to that unless it was under 10K miles. Most would gauge .0035 to .0075.
The ThermoBob isn't a band-aid. Cars adopted this idea sometime during the 1950's. This is one of the reasons engines last longer than they used to back then. (other reasons too of course).
We've had a ThermoBob 2 with a port for a temperature sensor for about 5 years. It's usually not needed on the current KLR's because they have one. People that have used a TrailTech dash asked for one with a port, and we did it long ago.
Another extremely important point - if someone tells you the bypass hose needs to be smaller, you should know they don't understand the system, and/or they haven't done testing. A smaller bypass hose will result in increased thermal cycling.
I'm very frustrated when people say stuff as valid facts, when it just isn't so.
I always try to be very careful to be sure I'm accurate when I provide information. I wish everyone else would do the same.
Disclosure - I make the aluminum parts in the ThermoBob kits.
WattMan's data speaks for itself. His support and dedication to the KLR community also speaks volumes.
 

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Discussion Starter #82
we will disagree, how about we leave it there. you said your piece.


There is considerable misinformation provided by a certain member in this thread. For those that don't know, the original guy that came up with the ThermoBob is WattMan. He is a real life aerospace engineer. HE is also a gear head, built his own twin turbo fuel injected 1966 Mustang fastback that made the cover of a major car magazine, long before all the big guys were doing this.
He did a very large number of runs collecting data during testing on his KLR650. At this time he has over 180K miles on the original bore, rings, and piston. At 142K miles a 3rd gear dog broke in his engine. He took it all apart, and replaced the gear. He put it back together, using the original rings and piston, to see how long he could go. He's monitored his oil use, balancer and camshaft chain wear, doo movement, etc, since he got the bike. I measured the bore with a dial bore gauge when it was apart. The total deviation was .0011 top to bottom, and left/right. At 142K miles. As a side note, I've measured a OOT of cylinders, and never seen one without a ThermoBob gauge close to that unless it was under 10K miles. Most would gauge .0035 to .0075.
The ThermoBob isn't a band-aid. Cars adopted this idea sometime during the 1950's. This is one of the reasons engines last longer than they used to back then. (other reasons too of course).
We've had a ThermoBob 2 with a port for a temperature sensor for about 5 years. It's usually not needed on the current KLR's because they have one. People that have used a TrailTech dash asked for one with a port, and we did it long ago.
Another extremely important point - if someone tells you the bypass hose needs to be smaller, you should know they don't understand the system, and/or they haven't done testing. A smaller bypass hose will result in increased thermal cycling.
I'm very frustrated when people say stuff as valid facts, when it just isn't so.
I always try to be very careful to be sure I'm accurate when I provide information. I wish everyone else would do the same.
Disclosure - I make the aluminum parts in the ThermoBob kits.
WattMan's data speaks for itself. His support and dedication to the KLR community also speaks volumes.
 

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Discussion Starter #84
Been down this road before, not going to fight with you.

I believe my claims, you have EVERY RIGHT not to.

I know someone that has 3 degrees and he's a complete idiot so the qualifications matter yes but aren't an end all. I don't know the person you are referencing so can't and wont' register an opinion.

Show your data.
 

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Been down this road before, not going to fight with you.

I believe my claims, you have EVERY RIGHT not to.

I know someone that has 3 degrees and he's a complete idiot so the qualifications matter yes but aren't an end all. I don't know the person you are referencing so can't and wont' register an opinion.
Grant, you've said a lot of stuff in the last couple of years, including stuff about my products.
I'm asking you to show your data. I believe you want to change the subject, because you haven't run tests that prove your position.
I do know him, and a lot of other people on here do also. Comparing WattMan to your friend that you say is an idiot is an attempt at distraction.
 

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Discussion Starter #86
Grant, you've said a lot of stuff in the last couple of years, including stuff about my products.
I'm asking you to show your data. I believe you want to change the subject, because you haven't run tests that prove your position.
I do know him, and a lot of other people on here do also. Comparing WattMan to your friend that you say is an idiot is an attempt at distraction.
Incorrect on all counts.

I promote your products actually, except for two. And i usually tell people those work pretty good, mine just work better (I'm allowed to my opinion). Not trying to distract you, I know a lost cause when i see it. There aint no convincing you NOR would i try.

I AM MORESO trying to NOT BE BANNED in which i already have history.
 

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Discussion Starter #87 (Edited)
Grant, you've said a lot of stuff in the last couple of years, including stuff about my products.
I'm asking you to show your data. I believe you want to change the subject, because you haven't run tests that prove your position.
I do know him, and a lot of other people on here do also. Comparing WattMan to your friend that you say is an idiot is an attempt at distraction.
no amount of goading will get me to fight in here. I didn't compare your friend to mine, i said a bunch of fancy pieces of paper aren't an end all trump card. People are human.

Back when i started this company i emailed you and asked if you wanted to work together on it. Didn't even get a reply. Later i called you to see if i could buy your products to include with my kits, you said you'd call me back and didn't. I get it, i'm not mad about it.

you didnt jump on the bandwagon and thats ok. For the Record.
 

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it is a really good question, and tbh the heat cycling will be a non issue with efi, the common perception of the cause of the heat cycling is flawed (in my not so humble opinion). What a thermo bypass would do for the EFI is the same as it does for an MCP fitted carb, Keep the head and the bottom of the cylinder the same temperature, transferring more heat into the cases.

there is a whole "controversial" thread here, if you really want to know my findings on the cause and solutions. www.facebook.com/MegaCityPerformance/photos/a.244136713802978/284305729786076

And for the record, your question couldn't cause a ruckus, but my answer might LOL
It's a radiator bypass. It will work the same whether EFI or any carb. It's actually better with the EFI if the EFI has temperature sensors, as all of them do these days. The quicker the warm up, the quicker the mixture can lean. No carb will work as well at that part.
In another post there was a comment regarding the reasoning behind the initiation of the ThermoBob. The true and accurate reason it was created was to lessen thermal cycling, as noted in the PDF I shared with you. The engine is also more efficient at the 195 temperature. Most passenger vehicles came with 195F to 210F thermostats these days, for a reason.
I also note that you rejected the validity of the data before you had time to read it. You reject the data, with zero supporting reason. Facts matter.
When outrageous claims are made, with no data, that can be an issue. When someone makes claims alleging flaws in a competitor's product, with zero supporting data, that's just plain bad.
There's some pretty bright people on this forum. Some of the claims made are IMO just not believable..
 

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Discussion Starter #91
It's a radiator bypass. It will work the same whether EFI or any carb. It's actually better with the EFI if the EFI has temperature sensors, as all of them do these days. The quicker the warm up, the quicker the mixture can lean. No carb will work as well at that part.
In another post there was a comment regarding the reasoning behind the initiation of the ThermoBob. The true and accurate reason it was created was to lessen thermal cycling, as noted in the PDF I shared with you. The engine is also more efficient at the 195 temperature. Most passenger vehicles came with 195F to 210F thermostats these days, for a reason.
I also note that you rejected the validity of the data before you had time to read it. You reject the data, with zero supporting reason. Facts matter.
When outrageous claims are made, with no data, that can be an issue. When someone makes claims alleging flaws in a competitor's product, with zero supporting data, that's just plain bad.
There's some pretty bright people on this forum. Some of the claims made are IMO just not believable..
everyone has the right to be wrong. We are FAR apart on the FACTS . Again i'll say, lets agree to disagree. Your THINK your KNOW, I THINK I KNOW. we don't agree. AT all, leave it at that.
 

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everyone has the right to be wrong. We are FAR apart on the FACTS . Again i'll say, lets agree to disagree. Your THINK your KNOW, I THINK I KNOW. we don't agree. AT all, leave it at that.
That is hilarious.
I've posted several historical, well known, public facts. And you deflect, and blow it off. Bovine excretion.
 

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Discussion Starter #93 (Edited)
Facts are OFTEN tainted by false perception, opinion and assumption ;) . Every mechanic in the world has sworn at the "engineers" which come up with solutions that work on paper or even in controlled circumstances but when it is transferred to the REAL WORLD it doesn't work.

That is hilarious.
I've posted several historical, well known, public facts. And you deflect, and blow it off. Bovine excretion.
28607
 

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Facts are OFTEN tainted by false perception, opinion and assumption ;) . Every mechanic in the world has sworn at the "engineers" which come up with solutions that work on paper or even in controlled circumstances but when it is transferred to the REAL WORLD it doesn't work.
Certainly. When I was a project manager in aerospace I often solved issues that had been created due to engineering mistakes, I solved several, and received compliments from the Pratt&Whitney engineering team for the Advanced Tactical Fighter that became the F22. I've been an actual hands on machinist for more than 40 years. It's been a great education.
The problem here is you are making claims that literally cannot be true, based on how things work. Ex: reduced engine RPM due to jetting changes. Another example: improved engine spark timing due to jetting changes for a no-EFI system with a fixed ignition timing setup. Then you made a false claim about why the ThermoBob was created, alleging stuff about improvement at low throttle openings. This is just a partial list. I've offered you info,and you reject it before you even have a chance to read it. Please quit before you get farther into the hole. Old family saying "when you find yourself in a hole, quit digging."
Here's another hint - Has your work ever been featured on the cover of "Hot Rod" magazine? The guy that did, adapted an EFI system, cooling system, and twin turbo system understands how all this works. Did all the work himself. Yet you reject his work and knowledge out of hand. This is like the little kid that sticks his fingers in his ears screaming "LALALALA."
Funny how you say this "Facts are OFTEN tainted by false perception, opinion and assumption" given the claims you've made for your products.
 

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Facts are OFTEN tainted by false perception, opinion and assumption ;) . Every mechanic in the world has sworn at the "engineers" which come up with solutions that work on paper or even in controlled circumstances but when it is transferred to the REAL WORLD it doesn't work.

View attachment 28607
If you think you are smarter than EM you are wrong. I've met Mike and I have been to his business. I have not met you but I was in the shop you worked at and have friends and family that bought bikes and parts from that business and I would not be bragging about the business model. I've read your posts going back to the judgedread days when you were claiming insane power increases and better mileage with your carb tweeks, thought you were full of crap then and feel the same way now. I'm sure Mike has better things to do with his time than defend documented facts to you and i doubt if anyone here would believe you rather than Mike.
 

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Discussion Starter #96
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

he has the market cornered on Smart? RHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH


None of you know me, but please feel free to demonstrate your superior intelligence ROFL


If you think you are smarter than EM you are wrong. I've met Mike and I have been to his business. I have not met you but I was in the shop you worked at and have friends and family that bought bikes and parts from that business and I would not be bragging about the business model. I've read your posts going back to the judgedread days when you were claiming insane power increases and better mileage with your carb tweeks, thought you were full of crap then and feel the same way now. I'm sure Mike has better things to do with his time than defend documented facts to you and i doubt if anyone here would believe you rather than Mike.
 

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Discussion Starter #99
DOG PILE !!!!!
 

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Ah, shit, this is off the rails.

What I see is a real effort made by others to enter the discussion but, Grant, all you are coming back with is deflection, snide comments about 'right to be wrong', self-aggrandizement, LOL, HAHAHAHA, and ROFL, and a refusal to support your contentions with sound theory or explanation. I don't hold much hope for that, based upon past events.

I really have to wonder what your purpose in being here is.
 
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