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Discussion Starter #1
Here's a photo of the rear balancer shaft bearing on a friend's 2013 which just got back from Florida, Texas, Arizona and California. The bearing cage came apart on his way to Vancouver Island so the bike is here. I pulled it apart as quickly as possible so as to assess damage before we drive him to the ferry.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u1388xqlwhe3icv/Antoine rear balancer bearing.jpg?dl=0

Is there anything anyone wants to have confirmed or shown while I'm doing the replacement? (Tom?)

I think this failure should be officially named "The Tom Trauma" in honor of the man who has done the most to publicize the failure.:)
 

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Is there any visible damage other than the bearing cage? It doesn't look too bad, but there are balls missing.

"And, I might add, more balls that I have", Tom said roundly.

Please measure the amount of oil in the sump before tearing down.

Take lots of pictures!

Tom

p.s. I'm going to move this to the 2008+ sub forum.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The sump was topped exactly to the full line as it was when I changed the oil about 20 minutes running time prior to the event.

He returned from a long loop down the coast then across Texas to Florida and return. He commented that he'd heard a crunch sound some times ago and thought it may have sounded a bit different once in a while while iding. I found a piece of material which looked like a chipped gear tooth which was on the magnetic drain plug & what looked like a small about of steel in the oil filter. He was in a rush to get going so I changed the oil, replaced the rear tire, while he JB Welded some radiator damage. He had bent the fan mount to move the fan further from the radiator which I advised that he correct. A few other small service operations and he was off again only to have it exhibit some loud crunching noises so he pulled into a rest stop and had the bike hauled here.

He had been topping up with oil as it was consuming ...think he said about 2-1/2 litres in 1,000 km while running very fast highway with passenger and maybe 100 pounds of gear. I doubt that he ran it low on oil as he's quite attentive but will ask for more details. Perhaps we can provide come evidence as to the not enough oil to that bearing hypothesis?

Please advise as to any area or aspect of possible investigation. I will need to get it done ASAP but would like to cover as many bases as can. I'm still thinking that this is the third of these bearings with which I've dealt but second one for certain. Too long ago to recall whether the bearing was the primary issue or something discovered in dealing with another issue. I probably warned about worsening memory as one gets older but forget.

In the morning I will investigate further. It looks like the lower part of the outer race is chipped but can't see any other damage at the moment so am optimistic regarding just swapping out the bearing.

I can't recall if the balancer bearing can be withdrawn from the outside or whether have to split the case..... Time to sleep and check the manuals tomorrow.

I think all balls are there although the cage is completely out of the bearing and scattered in pieces.


Is there any visible damage other than the bearing cage? It doesn't look too bad, but there are balls missing.

"And, I might add, more balls that I have", Tom said roundly.

Please measure the amount of oil in the sump before tearing down.

Take lots of pictures!

Tom

p.s. I'm going to move this to the 2008+ sub forum.
 

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I think that the standard procedure is to split the cases, but Paul mentioned to me that it may be possible to avoid that. Given the location of the bearing and and the shaft I'd want to have a look at all of the gears and some of those odd recesses in the lower case (to find bits and pieces - see "I am Joe's Crankcase").

Tom
 

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I think that the standard procedure is to split the cases, but Paul mentioned to me that it may be possible to avoid that. Given the location of the bearing and and the shaft I'd want to have a look at all of the gears and some of those odd recesses in the lower case (to find bits and pieces - see "I am Joe's Crankcase").

Tom
I've seen barnyard mechanics/welders, weld a pipe to an inner or outer bearing race and extract said bearing from a bore or a shaft in a manner Not approved by any service manual. I can't do it, as I don't know how to weld.

As long as the case does Not have a retainer lip on the outside, it could be possible. But also no way to check R.H. bearing.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
You younger people likely don't experience this very much but don't you hate it when you know that you've done something or seen something but can't recall the details you need? I think that the other(s) KLR rear balancer bearing I've replaced my have been part of replacing other parts including all or most of the engine & transmission bearings. I must have had the cases stripped as have no inkling of pulling that bearing from around the shaft.

Some bike case bearings are pressed in from one side and against a shoulder but these KLR bearings are retained by interference. I'm going to try removing this bearing alone and then to replace. It should be possible to heat the case substantially without risk because the engine typically reaches the boiling point of water under the right conditions. Cooling the bearing is a common practice which works well in encouraging an interference fit so reinstalling should be able to be performed along the lines of the manual's recommendations. I have seen and done, bearing installs without heating/cooling without problems so it's worth pursuing, IME.

Funny how minds work alike, Tom. I slept poorly last night because my brain was constantly sifting memory and options. I'm going to try to displace the shaft in the bearing sufficiently to extract the balls in order to have more access to the races and to avoid dropping into the transmission. One of the options which kept coming to mind was to use my TIG to run a bead or series of beads/spots into the ball groove of the outer race. This shrinks the bearing, often substantially. With the outer race removed, there will be more room to grasp the inner race in order to pull from the shaft.

I think the inner race is a slip fit on the shaft, right?

It will be necessary to have a reaction member when pulling the inner race from the shaft in order to avoid applying strain inside the case.

Will see how we go and report. Might have egg on my face but not going to overload and damage anything so worst case will be to strip the engine. I've done so much of that stuff over the last 55 years of wrenching that it holds little prospect of fun. :Tongue2:



I've seen barnyard mechanics/welders, weld a pipe to an inner or outer bearing race and extract said bearing from a bore or a shaft in a manner Not approved by any service manual. I can't do it, as I don't know how to weld.

As long as the case does Not have a retainer lip on the outside, it could be possible. But also no way to check R.H. bearing.
 

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Discussion Starter #7

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Discussion Starter #8
I made a pair of eccentric inserts which fit into the bearing ball races, then turn to lock. Using a 5 pound slide hammer, the bearing will not pull so time to reassess. I'm feeling that doing a freebie repair which requires splitting the cases is no longer something I'm interested in doing so off to get a couple of estimates from shops, then will let him decide.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Can't stand giving up on a problem so think will have a go at it by heating the case (in the bike = hot air guns) + running a bead around the part of the outer ball race which is clear of the balls + hitting the race with cooling spray, then the eccentrics and slide hammer. If it comes out, hard to say if will be able to install the new one but that would be problem #2. Otherwise a friend will do it at his shop by stripping the cases, heating and hydraulic press.

Can anyone recall whether the bearing has to go to the inside to remove? It looks clear to the outside of the bearing bore and absolutely don't recall which way we pushed the bearings when doing them all. Two of my bike tech friends who have been in the business for 25 - 35 years can't advise. Only one has ever opened KLR cases, and that to do crank bearings. Not a bad record for KLR. When I'm looking at vehicles, the best news is when the transmission shops have never seen one apart. :)

I'd like to offer a solution which avoids opening the cases because that would change the solution hugely for anyone. Labor to do the bearing is $500 - $900 depending on the shop. If it can be changed without pulling then engine then an easy few hours at home so it might be worth switching the bearing as a precaution on older bikes.
 

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Norm,
Wouldn't tight fitting eccentrics tend to wedge the outer tight-fitting race even tighter into the bore. As well as compress the inner race tight onto the shaft.

I do agree that this repair is well above a 'freebie'. Any which way it is completed.

Your friend is quite lucky to have been so near back home anyways.
 

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Normk,
From the line drawings in the OEM service manual, the factory Intends for that bearing to be pressed just flush with the inside of the case.
But looking at S.M. photos, if one can/could get it Out from the outside, one should be able to install new bearing from the outside.

I don't find any Specific info about the installation of that bearing.

Your 10 fingers work faster than my 2!
 

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If you were to find a suitable length of pipe and weld a nut to one end, to insert a threaded puller shaft into, tack weld the piece of pipe to evenly spaced balls or just the Inner diameter of the Outer race, the bearing should extract evenly. Use electric Heat gun on case.
One might need to fit a thick flat washer or just a nut over the hollow end of the balancer shaft.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
6 of one and 1/2 dozen of the other. :)

I couldn't make any other means to grasp the bearing with balls in place so thought it was worth a go. No idea how much wedging effect is taking place but has to be some effect for certain. The bearing is a slip fit on the shaft and doesn't seem that the eccentrics are locking the inner race to the shaft but that's without the slide hammer impact. As you suggest, the effect may be very significant. I've been successful with this method in other cases but not when the bearing is a shrink install to the degree of this one. Interesting problem. I may be able to use a carbide hacksaw blade by removing most of the blade to leave a cutting rod but that's going to produce a ton of very hard metal and carbide chips into the transmission so not going there.

Having to think of options which don't involve that sort of problem + the small grip area is interesting. I'm not certain that I can TIG something to the outer race safely but your post made me think that welding a pipe to the inner race. A pipe could be placed over the shaft to butt against the inner race which would shield the shaft from even elderly welding technique. :)




Norm,
Wouldn't tight fitting eccentrics tend to wedge the outer tight-fitting race even tighter into the bore. As well as compress the inner race tight onto the shaft.

I do agree that this repair is well above a 'freebie'. Any which way it is completed.

Your friend is quite lucky to have been so near back home anyways.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I think that it would have to be welded to the inner race as welding to individual balls would be difficult and likely simply result in the balls pulling out under strain. It would also take better eyesight and steadier hand than mine. :t1204:

Your model is a better articulated version of what I intend to try.



If you were to find a suitable length of pipe and weld a nut to one end, to insert a threaded puller shaft into, tack weld the piece of pipe to evenly spaced balls or just the Inner diameter of the Outer race, the bearing should extract evenly. Use electric Heat gun on case.
One might need to fit a thick flat washer or just a nut over the hollow end of the balancer shaft.
 

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Normk,
If the pipe Fits the inner race, ground the pipe, Just strike the arc onto the evenly spaced balls and pull inward and upward with the arc.

I am NOT a welder, but I have assisted several with theory and a leather gloved, steady hand.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
It's a no-go without opening up the cases. There is a tiny lip/ridge at the outside of the balancer bearing bore which finally were able to detect behind the chipped out area of the bearing race. I could just manage to catch it with a hooked "O" ring pick so that tells the tale. It's small enough to be under the fillet curve of the bearing race but no way the bearing will come to the outside. That at least is settled. Too bad as hoped for a simpler solution although am not surprised that they were not relying only on the shaft and interference fit to locate the bearing.
 

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Norm -

Off topic, but does it look like the balancer chain sprocket can be removed from the crank?

Tom
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I've looked at that a couple of times because it seemed like one might want to make one good crank from two. I'll go back and look at the crank. It seems unlikely that they machined the sprockets as part of the crank as heat treatment and handling would seem easier in pieces....

Did anyone notice the red "rust" on the right main bearing? It's toast because the ball races are spalling. We can't decide whether it's brinneling from pieces or spalling due to corrosion but rough regardless and needs changing.

I'm trying to remember for sure but thought the earlier connecting rods had only one lube hole for the wrist pin. Can someone confirm whether one hole or two like the later ones?

This engine has some odd wear to the connecting rod pin hole where there is some rolling up of metal although the pin is good. I think the rod will be fine with a polish. Cam journals and bearing surfaces are in beautiful condition so don't think the engine has been run low on oil at any point. The piston has scuff areas on both thrust and intake sides which look like it was on the verge of seizure at some point. The cylinder has some scuffing and heavy burnishing but should be OK with a honing and new rings. I still don't like that new style piston because of the very narrow oil ring and small oil return hole capacity. If it were mine and could get new rings for the earlier piston, I'd be sticking one of those in that cylinder with maybe a piston knurl.

Some pieces of the bearing race went through the oil pump which did some damage to the impellors so will need a kit but given the KLR over capacity, the pump housing will be fine.

I stole some bench space and did a taper and out of round on the cylinder off and torqued with nuts and washer stack. Will post the numbers later.



Norm -

Off topic, but does it look like the balancer chain sprocket can be removed from the crank?

Tom
 

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How in the Wide Wide World of Sports did bearing bits get up through the convoluted pickup tube, through the screen, and into the pump?

I am trying to visualize another path, but can't.

I asked about the pulley because it has been said that it is integral to the crank, somehow being permanently affixed after the bearing is installed. I've had no opportunities to closely examine that area. Well, once I did but I was distracted by thoughts of "What the heck am I going to do now?".

Is that sprocket pressed on to the crank shaft after the bearing is installed, or is it part of a bearing carrier assembly which has the two sprockets machined onto it and onto which the bearing is pressed, and then that assembly is pressed on to the crankshaft? Whatever the case, it is my understanding that if the left crankshaft bearing goes krank, the whole crankshaft is toast. Disassembly of the crankshaft requires a good sized press and re-assembly is a precision job.

Tom
 

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Normk,
Thanks for the pics.
We can now all see the special machining of the LH Balancer bearing, which prevents it from exterior removal.

Was there any swarf in the transmission banjo bolt?
How in the heck did my whole engine survive with swarf in the inlet banjo?

I see the engine has a thermostat bypass fitting.
Do you think the owner might agree to some oil system changes?
Tom might be able to supply a modified PRV. Or you can.

Do you know what oil the owner normally used?
 
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