New DR-Z and KTM 390 ADV at EICMA

Zando · Nov 5, 2024

Looks like Suzuki has updated the DR-Z400, now named DR-Z4S:

Press release: Suzuki Unveils the All-New DR-Z4S and DR-Z4SM
Dual Sport spec page: MOTORCYCLE | Global Suzuki
Supermoto: MOTORCYCLE | Global Suzuki

Has 3 drive modes, Traction Control (with gravel and off modes), ride-by-wire throttle (so cruise should be an option with aftermarket controllers), ABS (with off or rear only off modes), and Suzuki easy start (the single button press start).

Motor uses dual spark plugs now, titanium intake valves, new camshaft, new cylinder head, new piston and crankcases to "reduce mechanical loss by up to 20%" and make it run smoother and pull harder. 42mm throttle body and an exhaust with a dual-stage cat for Euro5 compliance. Revised airbox and inlet tube for improved low-end torque. New radiator with a bigger fan. Remains dry sump for lower center of gravity. Still a 5-speed transmission though.

Adjustable (compression and rebound) KYB suspension (280mm front, 296mm rear). Wide footpegs stock. Compact LED headlight. Fuel tank seems to be 2.3 gallons though, down from 2.6. Though I imagine it's a bit more efficient than the old DR-Z400 so probably similar range. 11.8" ground clearance, 36.2" seat height, claimed 333lb curb weight.

Overall, seems a good upgrade. I'll be sad to see the classic simple carb bike go (assuming this new model replaces it altogether), but it had to happen someday. A buncha electronics are unavoidable on new machines, but they seem to have nailed the important stuff (letting you disable TC and ABS, and a ride by wire throttle lets you add quickshifters and cruise and such, nice to have the option if everything else is already electronic).

Marketing photo of the bike:

Also, the KTM 390 Adventure R seems to be actually announced now (no press release from KTM yet that I can see): EICMA 2024: 2025 KTM 390 Adventure R Image Gallery.

Looks like a rally bike, is apparently all-new, nothing reused from the old 390. That site above claims it "gets a more powerful engine", it seems to be 45bhp now. 40HP was already a lot for a 390cc that you want to be reliable for long distances (and IIRC the old 390 ADV had some reliability issues), not sure that pulling more out is a good thing unless they upped displacement and just didn't change the 390 moniker.

Photo from BikeDekho at EICMA:

There's a 390 Enduro R (and SMC) now too, using the same powerplant as the Adventure above and the Duke 390. So (hopefully given the usual price of the 390s) another affordable ~400 class dual sport competitor. Odd to me that more of the Japanese OEMs don't make them, aside from Suzuki. Honda, Kawi, Yamaha just have 230/250s or 300s, and then Honda has the jump straight to a 450.

Photos of the 390 Enduro and SMC:

StarfuryTH · Nov 5, 2024

The DR-Z has been long overdue for an overhaul. It's a great bike, but like the KLR, it's been old tech for a long time. It's the Estwing hatchet of the mid-size dual-sport world. It sells because it works, and you can beat the ever loving crap out of it and (mostly) not worry about it. But it's heavy, underpowered, and lacks the premium suspension of its more expensive competitors.
The upgrade should be good as long as they work out any ECU kinks.

I have zero interest in a KTM 390. Wrung out street bike engine in a dual sport package.

What I'm really interested in is the new T7. Looks like it has some upgrades over the current package.
More importantly, people will be offloading gen 1 T7s next spring in favor of the new version, which means the used market may be more favorable for buyers...

Zando · Nov 5, 2024

StarfuryTH said:
The DR-Z has been long overdue for an overhaul. It's a great bike, but like the KLR, it's been old tech for a long time. It's the Estwing hatchet of the mid-size dual-sport world. It sells because it works, and you can beat the ever loving crap out of it and (mostly) not worry about it. But it's heavy, underpowered, and lacks the premium suspension of its more expensive competitors.
The upgrade should be good as long as they work out any ECU kinks.

Yep. Assuming no EFI problems (which you'd think they'd have solved by now, but see the CRF450RL's flameout issues and such), it seems a very well thought out upgrade. Some folks question why keep the 5-speed, I'd assume it just doesn't have the oomph to pull a taller 6th gear, so you'd just get a wider spread between. I do wonder if they changed the ratios on the current 5-speed with the engine upgrades, as it sounds like it should make a tad more power now. It looks great too IMO, especially the front fender, a lot of modern dirt bikes have an odd shaped one instead of the more plain and squared off look I like on dirt bikes.

StarfuryTH said:
I have zero interest in a KTM 390. Wrung out street bike engine in a dual sport package.

I am interested in them occupying a space in the market that's a bit above 300s. The same space the DR-Z4S will now occupy as it replaces the DR-Z400. I want to see more affordable 350s and 400s. The main complaint I've seen with the 300s is that people just want a bit more power. Honda and Yamaha (and Suzuki) all used to make 350s in the 80s and 90s, I want to see that class of bike return. If KTM can do well selling theirs, and Suzuki does well selling theirs, then maybe the other OEMs will join in. Before this, the only new ~400ish bikes were high performance high $ 350s from KTM and 350/390s from Beta.

I would be interested in them in general if they were cheap to run, but I've read that the 390 had some reliability issues, and I'm not sure pulling 5hp more out of the same displacement will improve that situation. And their current QA issues with 790 cylinders and cams do not fill me with confidence on a newer, even cheaper bike.

StarfuryTH said:
What I'm really interested in is the new T7. Looks like it has some upgrades over the current package.
More importantly, people will be offloading gen 1 T7s next spring in favor of the new version, which means the used market may be more favorable for buyers...

Ooohh did they make an actual upgrade to that? I haven't taken a look yet. Reading here: 2025 Yamaha Tenere 700 First Look and Specs.

Has a ride-by-wire throttle now (which should mean you can get aftermarket cruise control kits, which will be nice for the Tenere as it's actually quite highway capable) with 2 throttle maps and a selectable on/off traction control. New bigger screen, meh. ABS with the option for on, front wheel only, and off. New intake duct to improve torque and power in the low-midrange, which is where ADVs live a lot of the time so that should be nice. Flatter seat and an easier to access fuel tank cap. Updated KYB front fork with preload adjust, redesigned KYB rear shock. Claimed 455lb wet, I don't know what the older model weighed.

Reveille · Nov 5, 2024

Great to see Suzuki renewing the drz. But dang, 333lbs wet? Yikes. Time will tell if it can go on a diet and compete with other manufacturers.

Zando · Nov 5, 2024

The old one was a claimed 316, 324 measured (according to Dirt Rider). A 17lb gain while adding a euro 5 muffler, cat, ecu, fuel pump, and ABS, ain't really that bad IMO.

EDIT: Kawasaki's KLX300 is a claimed 302lb curb, the CRF300L ABS is a claimed 311. Barely lighter, and a lot less punch than even the old DR-Z motor, the update claims to have improved performance so it may have even more of a lead. I really don't think the DR-Z4S is heavy at all. Maybe compared to high end KTMs but those are a different class of motorcycle. I guess it remains to be seen what MSRP they announce for the DR-Z4S, that'll decide what it's competing with.

EFetona · Nov 5, 2024

I still remember when Suzuki put the DR350 out to pasture and released the brand new DRZ400. I did a lot of dual sport rides back in the 1990s. There were a lot of DR350s at each event. This is just another reminder of how freakin old I'm getting!!!

Zando · Nov 5, 2024

Half or more of them seem to still be kicking! I see DR350s constantly on Marketplace, in good running order. I have a 1991 XT350 myself that I was excited to fix and ride as it "just needed a base gasket", but turns out it's a poor botched and horrifically mutilated thing (inside, the outside was rattle canned so it was clearly horrid, I was foolishly hoping the internals were spared the same "fixing"), so far I've found more RTV and aluminum shavings and missing or broken parts the deeper I dig into the motor, so it may not be saveable

.

a4twenty · Nov 5, 2024

I'd love to see them update the 650, just don't think a 400 is enough for me....

Zando · Nov 5, 2024

I would assume that's next on their list. I wonder if Honda will ever take a poke at the big XR again too. I assume it will eventually be killed off via emissions regs, I don't think they can grandfather them forever given both Kawi and now Suzuki have bothered to upgrade the KLR and DR-Z respectively.

LeviCurr · Nov 6, 2024

I like this for my oldest daughter when it comes available in the lower model I am considering it for her.

Zando · Nov 6, 2024

Hmmmmmmmm....

Computer enhance:

Suzuki has this to say about the gears:

I do wonder if they changed the ratios, from my reading the gearbox being close-ratio is the problem, not the fact that it's a 5-speed. Though you'd think they would have mentioned if they did? But it seems a very odd upgrade to skip if they didn't. Nova makes a wide ratio gearbox for some of the DR-Z400s (Suzuki DRZ400 2000 – 2013 Wide Ratio Gearset), would be very strange if Suzuki themselves couldn't bother to change it. Though I don't think Suzuki has tons to throw around on R&D (they seem to not do as much vs other OEMs) so maybe they ate up their budget with the other changes.

Zando · Nov 7, 2024

Still no pricing information on anything that I can find. But Suzuki does have a few of their own accessories, putting them in a spoiler to keep things compact:

The skid plate looks like a proper piece of kit. As does the rear carrier, and the DC socket (mostly the mount, it looks quite nice). The low seat should be great for any shorties, though I do wonder how comfortable it can be, being that slim. Though seat comfort is usually more about shape than foam thickness. EDIT: It uses denser foam, and is a 30mm drop (~1.2"). That should take the 36.2" seat height down to a flat 35".

Also, BMW is teasing a "near production ready" concept F450GS: BMW Motorrad presents the BMW Concept F 450 GS.

48hp from the 450 twin. Weight is "close to the minimum weight requirement in the A2 class of 175 kg" (385lbs). How close is close, no one knows. 19/17 wheelset. The project manager says: "we will implement the bike as close as possible to this concept. We will only adjust the seat height for better accessibility and easier handling." And the real thing is slated for a presentation in 2025, so I guess we'll see how close they can stick to the concept.

I think it looks a bit ugly. The tail seems... wrong for how bulky the front is. But I think that's a style people actually like, seeing as folks modify their bikes to be similarly proportioned.

I saw an article claiming it was "Bad News For The KTM 390 Adventure", but I don't think they're really that close of competitors. Will be interesting to see what both this and the 390 land at for MSRP. But the 390 Adventure R is still a 21/18 wheelset, much more offroad focused machine. And it looks like a rally bike, which I find much cooler. The BMW has offroad friendly suspension and wheels, but it does look like a street bike with knobbies. I wonder if it's the engine just kinda hanging there with the gangly skid plate. The KTM looks more... whole? If that makes sense. Despite also being a trellise frame with (I assume) a stressed member motor:

Image from cycleworld: KTM Teases New 390 Models at EICMA. They provide a few more spec details too. The Adventure R has a cruise control button. The powerplant is the 2024 390 Duke one, so it is a longer stroke, power comes in 1,000rpm earlier than the old model. 89x64mm bore x stroke for 399cc (up from 373cc). The power coming on earlier sounds especially nice, IIRC from reviews of the old model you had to wring it a bit to get proper power, fun on the street but not great on the road. Not sure if they changed tune or cams or anything slightly for the offroad bikes, no one seems to say.

Zando · Nov 8, 2024

Kawasaki is being a meanie and teasing a new adventure bike: Kawasaki tease KLE twin-cylinder adventure concept.

I say meanie because they blocked off everything but the front wheel and the radiator basically 😭. Calling it the KLE, suspected to use the 451cc twin from the Eliminator and Ninja 500s.

pdwestman · Nov 8, 2024

Like I've said many times before on these pages, any Twin Cylinder off-highway capable Kawasaki Adventure style bike would have the model name beginning as KLE like the other Versys models.
Not KLR which is only for their Single Cylinder off-highway capable bikes.

AntonK · Nov 12, 2024

pdwestman said:
Like I've said many times before on these pages, any Twin Cylinder off-highway capable Kawasaki Adventure style bike would have the model name beginning as KLE like the other Versys models.
Not KLR which is only for their Single Cylinder off-highway capable bikes.

The Versys Kawasakis are totally not off-road capable in the slightest…

AntonK · Nov 12, 2024

Zando said:
Looks like Suzuki has updated the DR-Z400, now named DR-Z4S:

Press release: Suzuki Unveils the All-New DR-Z4S and DR-Z4SM
Dual Sport spec page: MOTORCYCLE | Global Suzuki
Supermoto: MOTORCYCLE | Global Suzuki

Has 3 drive modes, Traction Control (with gravel and off modes), ride-by-wire throttle (so cruise should be an option with aftermarket controllers), ABS (with off or rear only off modes), and Suzuki easy start (the single button press start).

Motor uses dual spark plugs now, titanium intake valves, new camshaft, new cylinder head, new piston and crankcases to "reduce mechanical loss by up to 20%" and make it run smoother and pull harder. 42mm throttle body and an exhaust with a dual-stage cat for Euro5 compliance. Revised airbox and inlet tube for improved low-end torque. New radiator with a bigger fan. Remains dry sump for lower center of gravity. Still a 5-speed transmission though.

Adjustable (compression and rebound) KYB suspension (280mm front, 296mm rear). Wide footpegs stock. Compact LED headlight. Fuel tank seems to be 2.3 gallons though, down from 2.6. Though I imagine it's a bit more efficient than the old DR-Z400 so probably similar range. 11.8" ground clearance, 36.2" seat height, claimed 333lb curb weight.

Overall, seems a good upgrade. I'll be sad to see the classic simple carb bike go (assuming this new model replaces it altogether), but it had to happen someday. A buncha electronics are unavoidable on new machines, but they seem to have nailed the important stuff (letting you disable TC and ABS, and a ride by wire throttle lets you add quickshifters and cruise and such, nice to have the option if everything else is already electronic).

Marketing photo of the bike:
View attachment 54969

Also, the KTM 390 Adventure R seems to be actually announced now (no press release from KTM yet that I can see): EICMA 2024: 2025 KTM 390 Adventure R Image Gallery.

Looks like a rally bike, is apparently all-new, nothing reused from the old 390. That site above claims it "gets a more powerful engine", it seems to be 45bhp now. 40HP was already a lot for a 390cc that you want to be reliable for long distances (and IIRC the old 390 ADV had some reliability issues), not sure that pulling more out is a good thing unless they upped displacement and just didn't change the 390 moniker.

Photo from BikeDekho at EICMA:
View attachment 54970

There's a 390 Enduro R (and SMC) now too, using the same powerplant as the Adventure above and the Duke 390. So (hopefully given the usual price of the 390s) another affordable ~400 class dual sport competitor. Odd to me that more of the Japanese OEMs don't make them, aside from Suzuki. Honda, Kawi, Yamaha just have 230/250s or 300s, and then Honda has the jump straight to a 450.

Photos of the 390 Enduro and SMC:
View attachment 54971

I totally love the DR 650 and have been looking at the DR 400 for years…But this new “updated model” with electronic throttle etc. - Suzuki dropped the ball by not updating the agricultural 5 speed box…I’d buy the CFR 450 L in a heart beat over the Suzuki…sadly

Zando · Nov 12, 2024

I don't think the CRF450RL is a DR-Z competitor... remains to be seen what MSRP these demand. The CRF450RL is a smidge over $10,000, it's poised more against the KTM and Beta 350-500s. Brutally short oil change interval too apparently, I see the KTM guys push 3k on 500s, CRF450RL guys do like 1800 miles. Honda recommended is every 600.

Whether the 5-speed is updated or no is still not known. They do say they strengthened the gears but they say nothing about the ratios. Scroll up a few posts, ~1/2 the gearbox is highlighted in yellow which Suzuki says is "new or redesigned parts". It might be a bit of cope, but I'm hoping they updated it to a wide-ratio transmission, which would make being a 5-speed a non-issue.

StarfuryTH · Nov 12, 2024

The CRF450 is essentially a race bike with a plate. As mentioned, high performance and short service intervals. It's not in the same category as the DR-Z, which is the tractor of that 300-400cc market segment.

It's good to keep in mind that a 6sp gearbox isn't the end-all be-all solution to highway capability. It's not increasing the power deficit. It only helps to lower rpms if the engine has enough power to operate at those lower rpms, and the DR-Z isn't quite powerful enough for extended highway use without being wound out.

I'd take a wider spacing on the gear ratios vs a 6sp, particularly on a torquey single. Cheaper, lighter, and it's not like you're going to need to be in that perfect rpm range coming out of every corner like you would on a race bike.

Zando · Nov 12, 2024

It’s not really a race bike (the CRF450RL). Puts 38hp to the ground. Race 450s have been putting near 50HP or more into the dirt for a while. My brother’s 2009 KX450 is 52HP, I believe that is crank, though it could be wheel. My cousin’s 2017 YZ450F puts 52hp into the ground. And it’s slower than that KX, though I believe that is due to sprocket gearing.

In an interesting coincidence, the 38HP/27ft-lbs the CRF450RL puts into the ground is the same as the crank numbers Suzuki quotes for the DR-Z4S. So it is a decent chunk more performance than that. The old DR-Z400 put 31HP into the ground, I assume the new one will put about that or a smidge more due to them doing some optimizations for internal friction, so it shouldn’t lose as much power between crank and ground.

StarfuryTH · Nov 13, 2024

The last group ride I went on included a guy on a Versys-X 300. The off-pavement work wasn't super strenuous, but I was impressed with how well he handled the bike in some of the more technical sections. He couldn't keep up with the group in the super rocky sections or hill climbs, and he dropped it a couple times, but he still got there.

Zando · Nov 13, 2024

Yep, bikes are way more capable than a lot of people give them credit for. I think folks often confuse want with can. You can take any bike most places. See the guy who just went RTW on a Ninja 636, guys doing gnarly backwoods trails on a 100cc Honda from the 1980s, or just classic desert sleds and scramblers being street bikes with a skid plate and maybe the exhaust bent up. My local bike mechanic said him and one of his employees got passed by a Yamaha R6 when they were riding the steep woods trails at Loretta Lynn's last year. But do you want to take just any bike most places? Especially with modern bikes where you can probably find one expressly built for what you intend to ride.

Zando · Jan 31, 2025

KTM 390 ADV is fully announced: https://www.ktm.com/en-us/models/travel/2025-ktm-390-adventurer.html

And the 390 Enduro R: https://www.ktm.com/en-us/models/dual-sport/2025-ktm-390-enduror.html

The ADV is $6999, the Enduro R is $5499. @LeviCurr pinging you just to make sure you've seen the pricing as it's actually been announced now.

DR-Z4S pricing still not announced it seems

.

AntonK · Jan 31, 2025

Not sure I want to buy from a company that is going bankrupt

Zando · Jan 31, 2025

May be, not is. They're in self-administration, drawing up a restructuring plan, if that is approved by majority creditors (I assume it will be, I doubt they want KTM to go under), then they will not go bankrupt: KTM Bankruptcy Update. Relevant quote from the article:

In November, three companies in the Pierer Mobility group filed for self-administration, which allows the existing management to remain in place and gives protection from creditors for 90 days, during which time companies need to draw up a restructuring plan that is approved by a majority of those creditors to fend off bankruptcy. Those companies were KTM AG (the main part of KTM) as well as KTM Components GmbH and KTM F&E GmbH (the R&D arm of KTM). Since then, another Pierer company, Avocado GmbH, also part of the KTM group and a supplier of software services to the other parts of KTM, has started insolvency proceedings.

New DR-Z and KTM 390 ADV at EICMA

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