Great question. My 16 felt like this from day 1 on stock tires, and I’ll confess that I haven’t been in dirt or gravel much since then, even though I have changed to different tires, I just hadn’t gone off road much since then because of the dissapointing squirlleyness and the unnerving feeling of it all.

Curious what others have to say.

 

Both my brother and I bought new KLR's and dont feel confident around corners. We were both thinking it's the front tire.

Try a Dunlop 606 on the back and a Pirelli MT21 on the front. Seems to be the favourite combo for gravel travel.

Thanks! I was looking at the D606 and I'm very interested in swapping the stock tires out. They dont look like they are going to last very long anyway.

Hagan, did any of those dirt bikes weigh 400+lbs.? I am new to the KLR and in my mind it was going to behave like a dirt bike, which was the last motorcycle I was on. I pictured riding trails, blazing across open desert, roosting, all that shit. In reality, it is a heavy beast that just threw me down on a straight road. Ride it for what it is, KLR650 and enjoy. I was freaked out how squirreley it is(was, I replaced that horrible oem tire) on highway at around 75. Again its the nature of this awesome beast and have become accustom to it.

Most of my bikes were XR600's (~330lbs) and were very well planted. Very confident in gravel and turns. My last bike was a '14 Wr450f that I bought new. Felt loose at times but learned that was the nature of the beast and was confident. After 1800 miles I don't feel confident on my KLR.

I realize it's not a dedicated dirt bike but I'm being passed by a bike that weighs 150lbs more than my KLR on a less aggressive street tire. I never saw him once slide around any turns and struggle as much as I did.

 

Try a Dunlop 606 on the back and a Pirelli MT21 on the front. Seems to be the favourite combo for gravel travel.

 

Hagan, did any of those dirt bikes weigh 400+lbs.? I am new to the KLR and in my mind it was going to behave like a dirt bike, which was the last motorcycle I was on. I pictured riding trails, blazing across open desert, roosting, all that shit. In reality, it is a heavy beast that just threw me down on a straight road. Ride it for what it is, KLR650 and enjoy. I was freaked out how squirreley it is(was, I replaced that horrible oem tire) on highway at around 75. Again its the nature of this awesome beast and have become accustom to it.

 

Sit back a little on the seat and ride it like you had a few drinks and just don't care. Let it skate around a little.

PS: Don't fill the tank.

 

What was he doing? I hope you find your comfort zone. You are trying to stick it out . Are you go back to 450? I thought the KLR would have been more dirt friendly but I use it on highway enough that I dont think a 450 or 400 would have given me what I needed. Ride safe

 

Never mind his bike 460lbs dry. So ~5 gallons of fuel would make it 100lbs heavier. We were doing the same trail riding next to each other. He had no problem keeping up with me. This has been my favorite bike I've owned. The most enjoyable to me so I'm keeping it.

My next set will be the most aggressive street legal tire I can find for my trail exploring if the damn weather ever cools down here.

What tires are you looking at? I've seen TKC 80s and 606's. Both look appealing to me.

 

My next set will be the most aggressive street legal tire I can find for my trail exploring if the damn weather ever cools down here.

 

The 606 I think is considered a 90/10 which looks favorable. I’m still looking before hitting Buy Now. I want as wide as will fit in back also.

 

Depending on type of gravel mine does too with the stock Dunlops. It is a tire issue. The tire Kawasaki puts on is OK on hard pack and OK on pavement, but real good at neither. I have found it to bite better, especially in the corners by running 18 lbs in the front and 20 rear. Since most of my riding is gravel back roads up here in Mi, I'm going to keep these the rest of this yr and then put the 606 rear and Perelli 21 up front next spring.

 

I have the Mitas 07's on front and back and man is this a superior tire. I've only done dirt roads that had gravel but not solid gravel and grass and they are great. On the highway I am blown away by the performance. I'm rock solid at 80mph.

 

Given your dirt experience, I'd say it's mainly a tire issue combined with a less than ideal stock riding position, high center of gravity and crap stock suspension. .......but there is nothing wrong with sliding! ;-)

A D606 rear/MT21 front combo at about 20-24 PSI, good bar bend, drop pegs, attack position and let 'er rip! ....of course a suspension upgrade will keep the bike planted on the rough stuff.

2 cents,
Dave

 

I just realized that I already said much the same back on page 2 before this thread devolved into a debate about the proper tire direction! LOL

cheers,
Dave

 

I have noticed the same with my new ‘17. I have yet to experiment with tire pressures and they are still in the upper 20s where the dealer had set them. I suspect lower pressure would help. Also, stock tires tend to be less than the best.

My KLR is currently as squirelly on dirt roads as my K1200LT, which is pretty sad. I think though that with better tires and lower pressures it will be much better.

 

Hagan, I personally find the original OEM Dunlop tires totally acceptable, even up to 90 mph on dirt & gravel roads in the desolate expanses of WY. And yes, most bikes will 'hunt' for traction/grip on gravel roads.
I normally run 32 psi front / 30 psi rear. I weigh 160 & ride a light Gen1.

I hesitate to ask, how much do you weigh? How tall is your actual inseam? How much reach do your arms have? What is your total height? About where on the seat do you set when on gravel roads?

Maybe your arm reach and weight have the rear suspension sagged and the front tire is 'light' & raked out like a 'chopper'? Very poor dirt handling.

Any Front Tire that you put on, the tread knobs or tread grooves need to appear as an up-side down vee, when viewed from the front, like this ,/\, !
Not this '\/'. The normal vee pattern will scoop the marbels, sand & water INTO the center of the tire tread. FRONT Dunlop D606, Kenda K761 & Kenda Big Block come to mind. Some tire companies still don't understand this!!

The upside-down vee scoots the stuff to the sides. The discontinued Avon Gripster was a great dual-sport front tire, imho.

 

I weigh right around 210. I'm 6'3" with a 34" inseam. My reach is right around ~32" (chest to tip of fingers). I had my saddle bags on full of camping gear this last weekend. Definitely should make the front feel light. I've tried sitting as far forward as possible on the seat and didnt notice any difference. I generally sit as as far forward on the seat as possible without being to squished on the front side. Riding in a straight line on gravel is fine as long as I stay in the tire tracks of vehicles. I've been riding without the saddle bags and doing mostly day trips.

 

Kenda TrakMaster IIs. True knobby; DOT street legal. More versatile on pavement than they look! Last longer on the slab than one might think.

VEE Rubber has a semi-comparable DOT knobby, a "Big Block" tread, VRM 401. Sticks like glue, on or off road, but . . . hardly lasts forever!

Heidenau K60 Scouts combine off-road performance with pavement durability; BRING MONEY!

 

Whichever way the "V" is supposed to point . . . the FRONT tire Vees point one way, and the REAR tire Vees point in the opposite direction.

The Vee orientation favors traction in STOPPING with the front tire, and in ACCELERATING with the rear tire.

Some tires have helpful little direction-of-rotation arrows on the sidewalls, assisting the rider in correct Vee orientation when mounting tires.

I HAVE SPOKEN!

 

The directional arrows aren’t just for tread orientation. Not that a KLR has either enough acceleration or braking force to matter much in regards to the tire tread splice direction. :grin2:

Tires Directional Arrows Explained By Avon Tyres at Cyril Huze Post ? Custom Motorcycle News

 

Voyage, You need to hold the front tires above your head and look at the pattern from the worms eye view. Which way does the tread V scoop the water, sand, gravel into the center line when on the brakes, verses scoot the water, sand & gravel out towards the sides? The Metzeler Laser street tires were the 1st to take advantage of this /\ pattern for wet weather perfomance.

The Dunlop D606 front knobby is one of the worst offenders I have ever had the displeasure of sampling on a gravel road with the front tire mounted your way. (Ok at 50 mph, totally unridable by 60 mph, on a Gen 2 KLR650.)
The factory arrow points your way and many people have been told forever to not argue with the factories. But that arrow is part of the reason why many riders match the Pirelli MT-21 front tire with the D606 rear, instead of simply reversing the front D606.

 

Since my tires are mounted, it is a little tricky to hold the bike above my head. I find it easier to just look at the top and flip the pattern mentally or look at the front and do the same.

I am running the stock tires since I have less than 300 miles on my KLR, but I will be watching here for what people have had good experience with as I approach tire replacement time.

 

Well I ended up going with Dunlop d606's front and rear. I ordered them a couple days ago. We will see how they handle once I wear the original tires out.

 

Well I ended up going with Dunlop d606's front and rear. I ordered them a couple days ago. We wi see how they handle once I wear the original tires out. Shouldn't be much longer

Good time to practice braking. :grin2:

 

Voyager, May I suggest that you take a look at the directional arrows on the side walls of the Avon TrailRider and TrekRider dual-sport tires and look at the tread vee directions. I have Not seen either of these sets in-person, but I've got a pretty good idea as to which way Avon marked them for rotation and which way I would mount them even if there were No Arrows.
,/\, down on the Front tire, as viewed from the front of the bike. ,/\, down on the Rear tire, as viewed from the Back of the bike.


I've read about tire directional arrows since the mid-1970's. And I have drawn these conclusions.

Most true Off-Road tires are uni-directional. So they can be reversed by those of us on shorter budgets, twice if desired.

Most Automotive tires are uni-directional, got to be, to be used left or right / front or rear / rear wheel drive or front wheel drive.

Truely high-end asphalt sport or racing tires may have an issue with tread splice direction. (NOTE, neither they nor I suggested carcass splice!)

But I will suggest that any tire that one may mount on a sub-50 horsepower KLR650 will not sustain any carcass or tread separation issues even if one chooses to mount the tread pattern in the Reverse Direction of the tire companies arrow.

 

Yes, most off-road tires will work fine either direction, however, if there are directional arrows, I follow them as the manufacturer generally has good reason for specifying a direction if they do so.

Most street tires are directional as you want the front to displace water in the rain. And thus you want the point of the V facing downward on the front so that the point hits the road first and then the V widens as the tire rotates forward to guide the water to the side of the tire. Putting a front directional tire on backwards can greatly increase the chances of hydroplaning in heavy rain.

The tread on street tires isn’t for traction, it is for water management. The best tread for traction on dry pavement is a slick. :smile2:

Obviously, most KLRs don’t run street tread so this isn’t a consideration. And off-road, the tread serves an entirely different purpose.

 

Dirt / trail riding is different than pavement. ‘Sliding contact’ not ‘static contact’ is squirreley by nature. Once you gain muscle memory and experience you’ll learn to like it! Tire change will improve it, but it’s kind of the nature of the beast.

Mark-

 

I live a mile back on a gravel road. I have had street tires, Shinko 244s, and Shinko 705s they all squirrel around on the gravel. I have learned to let the bike find its way, don't over tighten your grip and use the throttle to steer a little now and then.
When the tail comes out a little the front tire is more straight up and down so it doesn't tend to slip as much. Only problem is when a neighbor sees me doing that and doesn't understand why. The KLR is top heavy, and feels like the tires want to slide out a lot in the gravel. I can still run 35+ in the tightest turns on my road but it still feels squirrely.

 

Can we agree, Vees are oriented opposite, front to back?

If one could view the tracks made on the ground:

FRONT >>>>>>>>>>>> (BIKE) <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< REAR

(Imagine the bike is traveling from right toward the left of your screen.)

Seems to me, the imprint representation shown above is consonant with most tire manufacturers' direction-of-rotation recommendations.

Then again, I could be horribly, horribly in error (often the case).

Corrections and clarifications, as always, welcomed!

 

Damocles, if your comment was to me, my direction of travel was from the Left to Right of the screen.
I will suggest that in your diagram the front tire will act as a "scoop shovel" like a Dunlop D606 Front tire running standard arrow rotation and will get very squirrelly at 60 mph+ on gravel roads. And will pack with 'stickey mud'.

Your rear tire diagram (traveling left) will work great in sand, but will instantly pack-up with 'stickey mud' because it can't clean-out by squeezing the mud to the sides.




[The front tire tread or groove pattern needs to act like an angled squeegee, NOT a 'scoop shovel', because it is Always being 'pushed'>>>>>>>>>>>>>(forward imprint on the ground)>. The point of the vee needs to be the last portion of the vee to contact the surface, to act as a squeegee.

Never 'driving' like a rear tire normally does<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<(forward imprint on the ground)<.]
Maybe I should have said, "imprint on the ground, this end forward"?

 

I bought an '08 last year and sold my '05. The first time I rode the Gen II in the dirt I hit a mildly loose patch and the front nearly washed out from under me-startling to say the least. But now that I have a lot of miles on both models I'm finding that the '08 is just that way on dirt, I have adjusted but the '05 was a lot better off road. I've read about others noticing it too.

 

I ride an '09 KLR650...recently did the COBDR on it including Weston and Cinnamon pass...she was rock solid! She is not stock though...

I have older T63's on it and I did the suspension - Top Gun heavy spring in the back and progressive springs in the front with heavier oil - Do the suspension and it's a whole other bike...a very dirt friendly one (for what it is). Also did the lowering brackets for the pegs and raised the bars...tusk handguards and she was good to go.
Also - no heavy racks on the back - I used soft cheap saddlebags and they worked great for carrying tools, tube, food, etc.

I weigh 215 and am 5'8"....I just researched the forums for people my approx size and weight that were happy with their suspension mods (and picked the cheapest ones from that)....worked for me. I am super happy with my klr after it took me over Cinnamon Pass...it felt good to me on the rocks and in the gravel.

My biggest dilemma now is deciding which tires to replace the T63's with...maybe the mitas...maybe the mt21's

 

Thanks! I just did part of the OBDR and that's when I decided that my KLR was squirrelly.

I have new tires waiting to go on (Dunlop D606) and I hope that changes how it feels.

The Suspension on mine should be a lot better than yours was stock because of the stiffer springs Kawi used in 2014+. It feels like it could still use some suspension work though.

 

If you look at directional car tires, the V pattern is nearly universal with the point facing down in front so that it contacts the road first and pushes the water to the sides as the rest of the V rotates down and widens. This is because flat car tires hydroplane much easier than rounded motorcycle tires and thus dealing with water is a higher priority.

Also, the front and rear treads tend to face the same direction since in a turn the rear tires don’t follow as closely in the path of the front as with a single-track vehicle where it takes a very slow and tight turn to get the rear tire significantly out of track with the front. So hydroplaning of the rear tires is a bigger concern on a car than on a motorcycle.


https://tires.tirerack.com/search?w=directional tires

 

Excellent distinction between AUTOMOBILE tires and MOTORCYCLE tires, and their respective strategic tread designs.

 

Interesting discussion, accessible from this link:

Why do motorcycle front and rear tires have opposite tread patterns? ? Ramblings of a Singapore Biker Boy

Further, deponent sayeth not.



Well . . . maybe just ONE more link (2-minute video):

And . . . why not a quotation from Dunlop Q's and A's?

Why are some front and rear patterns reversed? What about channeling the water?

Many Dunlop motorcycle tire patterns have “reversed front patterns” compared to rear, because different forces act on front and rear tires. We test all Dunlop tires for satisfactory wet performance in the direction as indicated on the sidewall. It is important to always mount the tire in the correct direction of rotation as indicated by the arrow on the sidewall.

All this, and . . . AFAIK no LEGAL requirement demands mounting tires according to their manufacturer's direction-of-rotation arrow; free country, your bike; mount as you choose!

 

Wet performance is of minimal concern with a motorcycle tire. The round shape of the tire presents a canoe-shaped contact patch to the road surface that quite naturally disperses water. Contrary to some conventional wisdom, a motorcycle tire cannot hydroplane under any rideable condition.

A motorcycle tire is completely dissimilar from a car tire, which presents a rectangular contact patch to the road surface. Car tires, of course, will hydroplane with sufficient water and/or speed.

As far as front tire mounting that is not asymmetrical creating problems, the Kenda K761 will cup badly, refuse to turn in, and will follow any irregularity in the road. Its service life will be no better than the rear tire, about 9K miles. Flipped around, it will wear perfectly with no cupping, turn very well, be stable over rain grooves and pavement joints, and last well beyond 18K miles. A K761 that has been incorrectly mounted, and which has cupped, will stop cupping and begin performing well if flipped around. This is a tire I know well. The manufacturer recommends mounting it incorrectly, having the direction of rotation marking being the same as a rear tire.

The most common reason for motorcycle tire asymmetry is as described several times above. Both tires are responsible for acceleration forces, the rear being acceleration while the front is deceleration.

The front tire does not steer the bike at riding speed. Both tires steer the bike. Take any wheel and stand it upright. Roll it forward it will go straight. Lean the wheel slightly and push it forward. It will move in a circle and, if you can keep the wheel moving at the same speed, it will constantly turn in the same circle. The bike is turned by leaning it over on the tire, a lean which is initiated by a slight turn of the front tire in the opposite direction of the turn. Both tires do the same job except for the direction of the acceleration forces.

I have never seen the mounting configuration, though, to be anything other than as Paul states.

 

Motorcycle tires can and do hydroplane. Yes, the round profile raises the speed a little, but F=ma still holds. The harder you try to accelerate the water out of the way, the harder it resists.

https://youtu.be/6TRCroy3DKs