Suspension

I have a 2011. My problem was the front bottoming out when hitting pot hole, or large bump. I'm about 200 lb's w/o riding gear.
I took recommendation of this forum, and went with Cogent suspension, front & back.
I found that off road it was fine, but on smooth pavement it had the bike feeling every little irregular imperfection in the road. I've taken about 50cc's of recommended oil out of front shocks, and shortened spacers a little. It takes pavement a little better, but my 2017 XT250 feels like a Cadillac compared to the KLR. The KLR, while improved, still feels like it's doing some kind of pogo thing as I ride along.
Cogent did try to help me, and made many suggestions to help, but nothing seemed to completely remove that feeling like my handle bars were bouncing with the ripples in the road. I've since swapped the Cogent front springs back to my OEM springs. Again some improvement.
If all you want to do is stiffen up the ride, check out Cogent. It does firm up the ride, and they are a great outfit to work with.

I did find that my KLR handles much better at highway speeds with an Eagle Mike fork brace. Less wobble at highway speeds.

 

I have a 2011. My problem was the front bottoming out when hitting pot hole, or large bump. I'm about 200 lb's w/o riding gear.
I took recommendation of this forum, and went with Cogent suspension, front & back.
I found that off road it was fine, but on smooth pavement it had the bike feeling every little irregular imperfection in the road. I've taken about 50cc's of recommended oil out of front shocks, and shortened spacers a little. It takes pavement a little better, but my 2017 XT250 feels like a Cadillac compared to the KLR. The KLR, while improved, still feels like it's doing some kind of pogo thing as I ride along.
Cogent did try to help me, and made many suggestions to help, but nothing seemed to completely remove that feeling like my handle bars were bouncing with the ripples in the road. I've since swapped the Cogent front springs back to my OEM springs. Again some improvement.
If all you want to do is stiffen up the ride, check out Cogent. It does firm up the ride, and they are a great outfit to work with.

I did find that my KLR handles much better at highway speeds with an Eagle Mike fork brace. Less wobble at highway speeds.

Larry,

I've been thinking about this and wanted to say a couple things; first off, I respect your opinion on this. I believe that the difference in our experiences with the Cogent suspension is likely due to a difference in usage.

When I first ordered my Cogent Moab and DDC kit for my 2001, my very first impression was just like yours; the bike felt too harsh. I also called Todd and Rick and they recommended a slight lowering of the oil level and backing off the preload which I did. This helped but the forks were still stiffer on small hits. ....the flip side was that the bike was a whole new animal on single track and I was able to maintain double the pace (literally) and the bike felt 100 lbs lighter. Rick had offered to revalve my DDC's at no cost but I figured they were working well at this point. ......the stock fork setup does ONE thing better than any other setup and that's isolate the rider from very small impacts. This is due to the very light springrate and damping....but on anything more severe, the stock setup is WAY too light and the bike wallows, bottoms and can become dangerously unstable.

Interestly enough, when I bought my 2000 I had the oportunity to ride both bikes back to back again; one bone stock and one with all the upgrades - the difference was telling. When I upgraded the 2000, I set it up the same as the '01 and it felt really good to me as I was now used to it. ....I think some of the initial feeling of harshness was due to being used to the stock mushy setup.

Lastly, everyone uses their bikes differently; my background is offroad racing and I take my KLR's places that most don't....at speeds that most don't ride them - this has alot to do with my opinions on KLR suspension though I'd point out that I find my aftermarket suspension to be better on dirt roads and pavement as well because the bike is far more settled and predictable during manouvers and heavy braking.

At the end of the day, KLR's are heavy bikes with limited suspension travel and there is only so much that can be done; the increase in small impact harshness is a small price to pay for the improvements everywhere else IMO and I don't think it's correct to say the Cogent suspension just stiffens things up; it corrects the overly progressive damper rod damping with a proper cartridge style digressive damping curve. My KLR's can't compare to my KTM300's forks but they are light years better than they were stock.

All that said, I can understand that someone relatively light using a KLR on very moderate surfaces at moderate speeds may prefer the "cadillac" ride of the stock fork setup.

Cheers,

Dave

 

Larry, I assume you installed the DDC's too? The Cogent shock and DDC kit are a whole order of magnitude better than the stock damper rod forks and emulsion shock - which are budget 1970 pcs. I find the suspension improvement on my KLR's to be nothing short of amazing both on and offroad but certainly you benefit more when the suspension has to work harder.

Jncdi; If by "within the confines of the stock suspension" you mean without any shock replacement or fork cartridge units then you are fairly limited. At your weight and height, I'd try a set of raising links on the rear. On the front you can increase the oil level and adjust preload as necessary (try 25-30%)....and yes a fork brace will help, particularly at higher speeds, heavily loaded on pavement.

Some use heavier fork oil but since the damper rod forks are overly progressive you end up being very harsh on high speed hits - only a DDC or RT emulator can fix that.

With the tire pressure, the factory recommendations are to allow for a load or passenger; there is no need to have more air pressure in the rear than the skinny front tire. I'd try 30 or so, front and back.


Cheers,
Dave

 

On the front you can increase the oil level and adjust preload as necessary (try 25-30%)....and yes a fork brace will help, particularly at higher speeds, heavily loaded on pavement.

Dave,

I am not quite sure I understand what you are saying here. Do mean that adding oil level will increase the preload or are you referring to the preload on the rear as a second step?

How can the front be adjusted? What am I missing?

jncdi

 

I'm sure Dave can and will answer your question in detail but just for the moment, adding oil to the front suspension tubes will reduce the amount of air space above the oil. The effect of that is to increase the progressivity of the dampening.
But at 280 #, I'm surprised you are not complaining about bottoming. Riders over 200 lb generally seem to prefer stiffer front fork springs than those provided on the stock bike.
If you grab a big handful of front brake does the front suspension not compress all the way?

 

If you grab a big handful of front brake does the front suspension not compress all the way?

I guess I have adjusted my braking technique to compensate for this effect. I start braking with rear first and then add the front. The bike stays in a reasonably flat attitude.

If I get sloppy with this technique then the nose will dive quite noticiably.

jncdi

 

https://www.eaglemike.com/raising-links-for-2008-later-KLR650-8rl.htm

RL-1's are for 250 lbs+
RL-2's are for 200 - 250lbs

stock (pre-2014.5) is for 160lbs.

 

My suspension post just in case it helps;

Stock KLR suspension is 1980's tech with a damper rod fork and emulsion shock with weak damping and springrates which MAY be marginally acceptable if you weigh 160lb or less and stay on graded gravel roads at worst. 2014.5 NE and up have better spring and damping rates but are the same crappy old design.
The bandaid (cheapy) fixes are;
- many use progressive springs for the forks and heavier oil. This will help with bottoming, wallowing and brake dive but the suspension will be overly harsh and not compliant. Better than stock though. Rather than using heavier oil, I’d recommend trying an increased oil level first which reduces the “air spring” and can stiffen it up a bit without all the harshness of heavier oil…..especially on high speed damping.
- Eaglemike's raising links; these change the geometry and reduce leverage on the shock which raises the effective spring and damping rates. Hopefully you aren't short! Easy and cheap but it's a "one size fits all" deal and it doesn’t deal with the inherent quality issues with the stock shock body and emulsion design.
or
- a stiffer shock spring. While you likely need a stiffer spring to properly set sag, adding a stiffer spring exacerbates the damping issues and creates an unbalanced (oversprung and underdamped) suspension, particularly as the oil becomes contaminated.

Proper suspension fixes;
- forks: cartridge emulators from Racetech, DDC's from Cogent or Ricor Intiminators all with the proper wt springs. The DDC's are my choice because they work at least as good as the RT emulators AND have the simple install of the Ricor Valves.
- shock; a proper aftermarket decarbon shock. Available from Progressive, Cogent, Ricor, Elka, etc. Again, I think the Cogent shocks offer the best value and use top quality, made in the USA components.
While usage, budget and expectations are different for everyone, spending money on the stock shock is false economy IMO and the more you do, the less sense it makes.....better to spend the money on a decent shock. Many people have done the shock rebuild and spring only to replace it later anyway. I've yet to hear a single regret from anyone upgrading to a good shock.
2 cents,
Dave

 

my shock post;

The stock shock is a budget emulsion design without hardened internals. It also has inadequate compression damping and springrate for the majority of KLR riders. The 2014.5 and up bikes have stiffer springs and damping but still maintain the 1980 emulsion design.

The problem with the stock shock is that the combination of the soft body and emulsion design means that under hard or long term use the oil turns to a nitrogen entrained mess contaminated with aluminum wear particles (grey foamy sludge) and the damping goes to crap.

Many people put heavier springs on the stock shock and while that helps set the sag properly (which is necessary, read: Suspension and Springs ) the stiffer spring overwhelms the already weak compression damping making the shock "pogo" and the damping situation even worse…particularly as the shock degrades.

Raising links are an option if your tall enough; the shorter links decrease leverage on the shock which effectively increases both springrate and damping. You still have the quality issues with the stock shock and the effect isn't adjustable (without changing links) but it's something to try for those on a budget.

The best solution is a quality aftermarket DeCarbon shock. There are many shocks available; Progressive, Touratech, Ricor, Cogent, Elka, etc. ....they range from $379.00 to $1000.00 plus. For reference a stock Kawi shock is around $800 from the dealer. The best value IMO is Cogent's Adventure; it's a high quality shock, hardened body, DeCarbon design, deflective disk damping and an Ohlins spring. www.motocd.com

I have the full Cogent set up (DDC's and springs up front and an Adventure and Moab on the rear ) of my two Gen1's and the difference in performance and capability is massive. Easily the most drastic functional change of the 50+ mods I've done to my bikes.

 

At 280 lbs and with stock springs your forks will be doing much more "traveling" than say mine will @170 lbs. Adding more oil to stiffen by removing the more compressible air and replacing with oil could very well cause you to start blowing out fork seals causing more problems than curing.

 

That's why he needs to start with setting the sag......which I strongly suspect won't be possible with the stock springs. Oil weight or level shouldn't be used to make up for inadequate springrates.

Dave

 

Sooo true! On the road, the front brake might be as much as 90% of your stopping, depending upon how hard you're stopping. If you watch roadracing you will often see an air gap under the rear tires as they brake hard into the turns.

It seems popular to criticize the KLR front disc but I replaced my front brake line with stainless steel (Eagle Mike) and can now squeal the front tire at 50 mph on asphalt if I choose. Not a good practice, but doable.
What - is - good practice however, is practicing your emergency braking skills, on both dirt and pavement. In an Ideal World you'll never have to use them, but it's a great skill to have in your toolbox.
IMHO, it's desirable to get on a small dirt bike and practice locking the front (&/or rear) brake in a sandpit or some safe soft environment.
A deer jumped out in front of me on the MABDR and a brief full application of brakes probably kept us from contacting each other.

 

A colorful post from Patman (of Patman Racing) on the subject of fork sag ....it's an old post so keep in mind that the earlier Gen1's have 1.2" more suspension travel so the figures are off a bit;


Ya get the front wheel off the ground and measure the distance from the axel to the lower triple clamp. Then sit on the bike and bounce a bit, try to keep you feet on the pegs, with a chair next to ya to hold on to or some such. Then sit still and have some babe in a bikini measure the same distance. It should be about 2.5 inches less. Put your bike on the stand again, and loosen the upper triple clamp bilts a bit. Put a weight on the back rack so the bike wont fall on it's nose when you take the fork caps off ( nothing will be holding the spring and the forks will collapse otherwise ) Take off the fork caps. ( 19mm I think ) Pull the spacers, metal tubes. Measure them.
Now. If your bike only sagged 2 inches when the babe measured the axel to t-clamp thing, then you're a light-ass, and you need to cut a half inch from whatever spacers you have, to make it sag that 2.5 inches.

If it sagged 3 inches, it's up to you if you wann mess with it for a half an inch or not. But if it sagged 4 inches, then you need to measure the spacer you have, and make a new one about an inch longer. drop 'em in, and put the caps back on ( DO NOT STRIP THE THREADS ON THE CAPS...it will be a bad day if you do. ) Get back on the bike and call the babe again.

Fairly simple actually.

Except gettin' the babe part.


Oh yeah, this will not make things stiffer up front...though the babe might.
It only adjusts the ride height of the bike to get it back to factory specs. It will have a bit more travel, 'cuse it's starting from the correct place. But it will be just as soft as always reacting to a hit. So when ya can, scrape up the $80 bucks for the springs...and call the babe again..

 

Then sit still and have some babe in a bikini measure the same distance.
...

Except gettin' the babe part.

If I do this over the winter in my garage the babe will definitely have her high beams on.

Now to find that babe...

jncdi

 

And if you are 6 ft 4 in tall, you'd probably benefit from a set of handlebar risers.

 

They are under consideration. I will be doing the northern half of the MABDR later this month with some guys who have been riding for a number years if not decades. They should be able to see what can be improved in my skills and what other mods could be beneficial.

jncdi

 

Huuummmmmm,
Stock KLR forks use 10W oil.

Race Tech Emulators use 10W oil, IIRC, after over drilling the damper rods.

Cogent DDCs do Not require over drilling the damper rods, because we are supposed to use the thinner 5W oil, IIRC?

An out-of-round Wheel or Tire can cause a motorcycle to feel a little bit like a 'clown car' with goofy wheels at certain speeds. (pogo effect)? Even tho the wheel and tire can be 'balanced'.

 

Huuummmmmm,
Stock KLR forks use 10W oil.

Race Tech Emulators use 10W oil, IIRC, after over drilling the damper rods.

Cogent DDCs do Not require over drilling the damper rods, because we are supposed to use the thinner 5W oil, IIRC?

Correct. Sorry, brain fart - meant 5W.....otherwise the DDC's would be a bit harsh!

Cheers,
Dave

 

Reading through this entire Thread (good Qs JNCDI) I've learned quite a bit...
thank you Boys!

My 'Maiden Voyage' yesterday after re-assembling my 'exploded diagram' '03 involved 2 disappointments (among alotta successes... new Thread for that soon since I'm not, or try not to be, a HiJacker!!!).

1. PDWestMan helped me figure out why the Primary Drive Seal I replaced was leaking ['prolly drove it in too far though I may have (also) marred the Seal on install... we'll see this weekend if I get the time to take all that SHITE off again... Oh, and PUT IT BACK-FRIKKIN'-ON... SHEESH].

And now youse guys are ALL helping me with understanding my only other 'shortfall' on the re-assembly).

2. I felt a bitta 'pogo-ing' too, from the Front (most accurately descriptive phrase yet... thanks for THAT, too!). I replaced my poorly painted Rims (FIASCO!!!) with some CraigsList ones during re-assembly. My MCShop pronounced 'em Clean 'n Strait 'n True, but I wondered. Now methinks it's more likely... just the Bike. I'm not saying I'm 'dialed in' on my Suspension... I only stuck (lesser) Progressives in front with new Bushings/Seals/Oil (10W) and AM STUCK with OEM in Rear. Fortunately I'm a better 'n average Rider and I'm 6'2" 190#, so I'm not affecting the Bike with extemporaneous input too terribly much/often.
My point here is, NOW I KNOW, I'm prolly okay with the very modest Pogo-ing until I make further changes (Budget, Time... just like everyone else). Even then, it'll be VERY helpful to remember I'll never achieve perfection with this Beast... and that's juuuuuust fine.

I think this entire Post most important comment was DPelletier's where he mentioned something to the effect of 'You just can't set this Bike up to be perfect in every instance (my words)'.
Benefit here?
Price there!
Benefit there?
Price somewhere's else most likely.
Give 'n Take...

All the while I'm remembering $850 PurchasePrice with about $800 in 'stuff' (parts, replacements, ForkRebuild, Tars, etc).
I guess my 'time' is Free...
{{{ sigh }}}

AAAAAND...

I've not yet checked/done my Doo-Hickey (next 500 mi or so... at 17,500mi currently),
nor have I replaced my Rear Shock.
I'm saving up and choosing Lemonaide Stand locations to set up at, so I hope to pick up/add those parts SOON!!!

 

Dave,

Your comments about usage also ring true here.

I tend to go easy on the bike whether on paved or unpaved roads. It is most comfortable up to about 50-55mph simply because of wind noise. (Yes, I wear ear plugs on all rides).

The main purpose behind the purchase of this bike is exploring places that could not be easily reached with another mode of transportation. The challenge of learning a riding skills is also addictive.

The intent behind this thread is to find the forum wisdom on making the bike better on the highway for those times when there is no other reasonable route. It is quite obvious the KLR was never intended to be a highway tourer or autobahn blaster. And that suits me just fine.

My next steps will be:
1.) Adjust the preload on the forks.
2.) Adjust rear rebound.
3.) Ride the rest of the season and then consider whether a full blown Cogent set-up is in the cards.

I will report back after making the adjustments with my findings to close the circle.

Thanks to you and everyone else for the wisdom.

jncdi

 

Suspension

Quote: Dpelletier "Thanks for the reply; I find the subject fascinating. So to be clear, you are currently using the DDC's with the 10W oil and the stock springs?"

Yes! I did full Cogent install.
Then I removed some oil as suggested by Todd.
Then I shortened the spacer a few mm, as per Todd's suggestion.
Lastly, I put OEM springs back in. (Latest experiment.)
That's how it is currently. Softer ride, and so-far, no bottoming. (Still have to get it out on some rough stuff, but I feel it should be ok as far as that is concerned.

I did think it may be a front tire slightly out of round.
(I had taken a brand new Heidenau off, and replaced it with a Bridgestone TW41, because of excessive bounce.)
It seemed to be much better. I wonder it a combination of slight out of round, and the DDC could be making the pogo thing happen? It happens randomly, not like a out of round would act. (Bounce rate repeating in rhythmic fashion.) This is more random!

 

Quote: Dpelletier "Thanks for the reply; I find the subject fascinating. So to be clear, you are currently using the DDC's with the 10W oil and the stock springs?"

Yes! I did full Cogent install.
Then I removed some oil as suggested by Todd.
Then I shortened the spacer a few mm, as per Todd's suggestion.
Lastly, I put OEM springs back in. (Latest experiment.)
That's how it is currently. Softer ride, and so-far, no bottoming. (Still have to get it out on some rough stuff, but I feel it should be ok as far as that is concerned.

I did think it may be a front tire slightly out of round.
(I had taken a brand new Heidenau off, and replaced it with a Bridgestone TW41, because of excessive bounce.)
It seemed to be much better. I wonder it a combination of slight out of round, and the DDC could be making the pogo thing happen? It happens randomly, not like a out of round would act. (Bounce rate repeating in rhythmic fashion.) This is more random!

I was thinking even more about this.......I believe your "pogoing" may be due to a tire/rim/balance issue and is/was exascerbated by both the stiffer spring and the stiffer initial damping of the DDC's.... The relative "harshness" I was referring to earlier is not quite the same thing though it stems from the same comparative changes.

The random fashion could be a combination of the tire/rim issue coupled with a well placed road imperfection....

Not sure I'm articulating this quite right; hopefully you see what I mean.

Cheers,
Dave

 

Not sure if this has been posted before but here is a video of a Progressive spring install:

It has a nice side by side comparison to the stock spring as well.

jncdi

 

The sag measurements are completed and it looks like I need to add an extra 1 1/4" of spacer length to the forks in order to get it back to the 1/3 travel guideline.

I went to remove the fork caps and they seem to be torqued by Magilla. Is this normal? Should a breaker bar be required to loosen these caps?

jncdi

 

Loosen the top PINCH bolts of the triple clamp.

 

Thanks for the quick reply. Knew some bit of knowledge was missing on my part.

jncdi