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Water pump seal?

11K views 12 replies 6 participants last post by  jiggseob  
#1 ·
The skid plate I have (was installed when I got KLR) covers under and around side of engine. Thus prevents me from examining the engine for where that 6" diameter blotch of something - not oil so must be coolant - came from.

So removed the skidplate, there was quite a slimy gucky mess on the bottom-side of the engine, nicely covered up by skidplate. While the mess was slimy and gucky, it didn't seem like oil. Wiped it all clean, found the oil plug, removed that, and drained oil. Nothing on the tip of the magnetic plug. Continued wiping and cleaning bottom of engine. I put a new copper ring on the oil plug, and torqued it in with my 1/4dr toque wrench to 15 ft lbs. Found a hole through the head of the oil plug, obviously put there by previous owner. In keeping with my obsessive-compulsive oil-plug-retentive tendencies, I wired the oil plug to the frame.
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Onward to where that blotch of glycol is coming from. It took about an hour, but a droplet of coolant slowly formed at this hole in the bottom of the water pump.
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My question for the forum is about what is in that hole... I took a clean toothpick and poked in there, what came out was not only glycol, but maybe a bit of oil. In terms of oil disappearing from the crankcase, this being an 08 model, oil going away from the crankcase at a rate of about 1/4 quart every 1000 miles is not unusual. The presence of oil in this weep-hole, and the gucky mess on the bottom of the engine appears a bit oily, introduces the possibility that some of that 1/4 quart is going here.

Without looking at a cutaway diagram of that area of the engine, I presume that weep hole goes to a dead cavity inside, with a crankcase oil seal on one side, and a glycol seal on the other. Either seal can leak with the theory being the path of least resistance for the leaking substance is out through this weep hole and out, rather than past the other seal.

I presume the glycol seal is reasonably doable. How much do I have to remove to replace the oil-seal side?
 
#4 ·
Yes, you're correct in that the weep hole allows either oil or coolant to bleed out - if the seals should leak.
The best path forward is to replace the oil seal and the coolant seal in one go.

Eagle Mike had the seal and WP cover gasket in my hands in about 4 days, local dealers said could be about 2 weeks.
Holler if you have any issues/questions. I'm the nerd that did the original how-to for Marknet (different Mark).

Worst case, you also need to replace the clutch cover gasket since that has to come off as well. So maybe plan ahead if clutch springs or disks are on the maintenance plans.
 
#5 ·
Thanks for the info. How do I check for failing balancer shaft bearing? I presume thats the shaft which is also the water pump shaft? I guess I will take it apart and check for axial play with a dial indicator. Any idea on how much play is acceptable?

Mark's KLR website has some great info, since my shop has no wifi, I'd like to save the stuff on my laptop and have the laptop in the shop with the document open... but I can't figure out how to get the link to pdf and then save to work.

Full disassembly to inspect balancer shaft bearing. Then order parts... hopefully get it buttoned-up before glaciers recede.

I have some reading and dis-assembling and parts ordering to do...
 
#6 ·
Is your bike stored in a cold environment for the winter?
 

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#7 ·
Thanks for finding that pdf for me klr4evr, the link to it seems to be idiot proof....

Yes, the KLR lives the winter in an un-heated area, not full-on 40-below, but probably gets to -10C (14F). The antifreeze mix tests -40C, thats with an automotive tester, I presume the motorcycle coolant formulation is similar enough to test reasonably accurately by specific gravity...
 
#9 ·
Thanks for finding that pdf for me klr4evr, the link to it seems to be idiot proof....
I created the PDF and just uploaded it here so it‘s available till the Internet implodes.
 
#8 ·
I have had this leakage issue every winter for as long as I can remember when I had my bike stored in the cold. Antifreeze will just do that. I’m sure there is some science behind it which Goggle can probably answer. I even have a seal set sitting in my parts bin. Once the weather warms up and you run the motor I would bet that your leak stops.
 
#10 ·
I'll ask if there is any evidence or possibility that a previous owner may have had the clutch cover off in the past?

Many people have snagged the pump shaft oil seal lip during re-installation of their clutch covers, rolling part of the seal lip inside out.
(It helps to polish the chamfer of the shaft with emery cloth.)
But parked on the sidestand it would be above oil level, so no oil drip during storage.

An occasional drip from the mechanical coolant seal is totally normal IME. That is why we have an extra pint+ of coolant in the bottom 2/3rds of the hot coolant recovery reservoir.
(My truck drips from the radiator tanks before its gaskets warm-up in the winter time.)
But the coolant seal has to be destroyed to replace the oil seal, if its been run very long with an inside-out lip.

I don't see a run-out spec or bearing play spec in the service manuals. But I have seen a pic or 2 on the net of slightly bent coolant shafts. How do people do such things?

With the coolant drained & the pump cover Removed, one could crank the starter to check run-out or even Start the engine for 10 seconds. (Oil still in the engine of course.) :)
 
#11 · (Edited)
There is a healthy protruding bead of gasket-goo on the center engine casting line. So I'm pretty sure the engine has been split, and thus the right side engine/clutch cover off.

Checking for rotational runout is something I didn't think of. I never even considered the possibility of a bent shaft... yes, how could one accomplish bending a water pump shaft? A rock in the impeller? Thats one hellua wheelie gone bad. Yipes.

To check for "bearing play" one would remove the seal, to allow the shaft to travel to the limits of play in the hard parts without the neoprene seal impeding or contributing to the measurable play. In this case, that means removing the right side cover with the seal in it, and then setup the dial indicator, and pry/push the shaft up/down or fore-aft. Parts diagram shows a ball-bearing on that balance shaft, and every ball bearing has some play. In applications like transmissions, 0.006" is a rule of thumb limit for a ball bearing with the load applied in the one direction forcing the shafts apart. This being a balance shaft and subject to repetitive load in every direction, I'm hoping to find less than six thou. We shall see.

I can see excessive play taking out the oil seal, but I don't think there was alot of oil coming out the weep hole. The gucky slimy crud on the bottom of the engine that appears to have come from the weep hole might have been a nicely emulsified blend of glycol and oil. There are people who undertake a chemical analysis of body-fluids of a motorcycle by taking a small dab on the tongue, and being able to taste engine oil, glycol, or brake fluid. Not me.

A two-piece rotating ceramic seal indeed can leak a bit from time to time, and still be OK. Unlikely to blow out and lose all coolant in a second like a burst hose. That type of seal will just puke and burp at a slowly increasing rate until you get sick of adding coolant. My KLR had been showing me a few drops of glycol on the floor from time to time. So I'm pretty sure its not a winter-only cold storage thing. The way the fairing bracket is set-up, I can't get my Stant pressure test adapter cap on it. Anyways, I'm going to dig in and replace that waterpump seal, if for no other reason to give myself some reassurance that the balancer shaft bearing isn't going bad like KlrIan describes above.

I will post my findings as I continue to dig in. -14C here tonight, so the glaciers are staying for a while longer.
 
#12 ·
I could tell the bearing was bad by moving the impeller side to side and up and down by hand. I could feel the play in the bearing with the engine side case in place. Ignore the Clymer manual when it tells you to split the cases to replace the front balancer bearings or impeller shaft, that is not necessary.
 
#13 ·
Got the parts, cover gasket, water pump gasket, oil seal, 2 piece coolant seal, o-ring, etc. $64 cad from my dealer 50 miles away. Yes, probably could have got it all cheaper online, but if we have no dealers our bikes are worth about the same as those cheapo-honda-copy bikes.

Just had a couple hours to work. Lifted the bike with 4 ratchet straps and the heavy duty engine hoist. I have a platform lift, and a skidplate lift, but the work I'm doing requires access to the underside of the engine. I'm going to try lowering links, and while I'm at it install grease zerks on the rear suspension pivots. So lifting the bike about 3 feet up, suspended by the passenger footpeg brackets and the front crashbar mount points provides both under engine and rear suspension access. Yes its annoying how it swings around a bit. But the engine lifting shop crane is the heavy-duty one that easily lifts a 5-9 cummins. So the iron-pig is an easy lift. Sitting on a milk-crate with full access to bottom of engine.

Could not measure any radial play/runout in the balancer-shaft / water-pump-shaft bearings. I was very releived to find that. Got the gasket surfaces clean. Back on rotation at work. Get more at it next change-off.