[Tom Schmitz]

It is very hard to see on the schematic unless you open the file in a new tab and zoom in.

I've enlarged the section; see if it looks logical to you. The kill switch will work 'backwards', the 'Off' position will be 'Run'. The ignition switch looked OK as-is.

 

[Tom Schmitz]

Eh, not so fast, sport.

The ignition switch might be a problem and the starter button is a problem.

This will require pondering.

 

[Tom Schmitz]

Damocles,

The Gen 2 ignition switch performs the same base functions as the Gen 1 switch. That is, it connects the white 20A B+ to the switched power, brown, when "On" and grounds the igniter when "Off". It does not have the "Park" position and doesn't control the headlight power, etc., but that seems to be no matter. I think it will work as-is.

The starter switch on the Gen 2 takes it's power from the kill switch on the Gen 2. The kill switch is a SPST. The kill switch on the Gen 1 is a DPST and serves to ground the igniter and provide power to the starter switch. In order to avoid diodes, relays, and magic dust I think I need to leave it alone. Thus, I will not have a kill switch because, as you pointed out, the kill switch on the Gen 2 interrupts power to the coil rather than grounding the igniter.

What do you think the effect and ramifications of using the Gen 2 kill switch would be if it were used to interrupt power to the Gen 1 coil?

I can live without a kill switch, but I wonder if I need to lock its position so that it can't be moved, or perhaps go into it and hardwire its function.

There's an extra right-side swtich block around here that I'm going to dissect and see how the internal wiring is accomplished. Might be I could still make it work...

 

[Tom Schmitz]

Didn't know the Generation 2 ignition switch grounds the igniter when OFF; opening the circuit to the coil primary windings was its function, I thought....

We have to qualify my statement with "That's the way I'm reading it", which could be wrong.

In the "Off" position the Gen 2 ignition switch connects the B/W from the igniter to chassis ground, the B/Y ground bus wire. Of course, we don't know the functions of the various igniter pins because Denso and KHI hold these close to the vest, but I take that as "grounding the igniter".

I cannot find the right side switch block anywhere in the Shed of Horrors, which is why it is called the Shed of Horrors. I am leaning towards not having a kill switch.

Obviously, I must study this much more...

 

[Tom Schmitz]

The Gen 1 and Gen 2 coils are different, that we know.

The Gen 2 coil has no marking as to '+' or '-'. The Gen 2 does.

Both coils have a wide tab and a skinny tab. On the Gen 2 the skinny tab is connected to the black wire that goes to the igniter.

Now, it seems obvious and a dumb question, but I have to check.

In the Gen 1 harness is the skinny connector connected to the black wire that goes to the CDI? In other words, is the '-' side of the coil connected to the CDI?

I should think they would be wired the same buuut....

 

[Tom Schmitz]

Thanks Damocles. I figured that to be the case, but my understanding is flimsy enough to seek reassurance.

 

[Tom Schmitz]

Yeah, that's the way we used to do it when setting up the ignition on British four-bangers. It looks good in the diagram, sort of the like the drawings in the back of Boy's Life that showed you how well the Easy Off Pimple Popper worked, but in real life it's hard to see the flare.

 

[Tom Schmitz]

The Gen 1 and Gen 2 coils are different, that we know.

The Gen 2 coil has no marking as to '+' or '-'. The Gen 2 does.

Both coils have a wide tab and a skinny tab. On the Gen 2 the skinny tab is connected to the black wire that goes to the igniter.

Now, it seems obvious and a dumb question, but I have to check.

In the Gen 1 harness is the skinny connector connected to the black wire that goes to the CDI? In other words, is the '-' side of the coil connected to the CDI?

I should think they would be wired the same buuut....

Tom, Which has What?

On a Gen 1 ignition coil the inward skinny tab is the Black/Yellow Ground terminal. Primary contact tabs face towards the rear of the bike.

I do believe polarity does make some difference on both systems. Not sure how much difference.

The Gen 2 coil has no marking as to '+' or '-'. The Gen 1 does.

It would seem, then, that on the Gen 2 the fat tab is B+ and the skinny tab is connected to the black wire from the igniter.

On the Gen 1 the fat tab is connected to the black wire from the CDI box while the skinny tab is connected to chassis ground.

Whether important or not I'm going to try very hard to install the coils with the 'polarity' as originally designed. After all, if i get it wrong I may offset the gains that I achieve by indexing the spark plug (VBG).

 

[Tom Schmitz]

Tom, please check to see if the "-" terminal of the Generation 1 ignition coil is electrically common with the coil's case.

If so, some rationale for the polarity may surface.

At the attach point for the coil there is a brass clip that looks like it could be a part of the coil case, electrically. However, it is nothing more than a brass clip that goes over the plastic mounting point.

 

[Tom Schmitz]

Updated.

 

[Tom Schmitz]

Jeff,

Paul says that the skinny tab on the coil is connected to chassis ground with a BK/Y wire and the fat tab is connected to the CDI box. That is backwards from how the Gen 2 is, where the skinny tab goes to the igniter.

Thus, I have to change the terminals around on my harness. In electronics/electrical work the most common (and standard) connectors are .250" and .187", followed by .110". Can you guess what the skinny tab one the coil is? It's .205". Ya know what the onliest thing in the world (besides some stupid git's idea of an ignition coil) that uses .205" connectors?

Audio speakers and video game crap.

A smart person would file the .205" down to .187" and POR.

So I ordered .205" FASTON connectors from Mouser...

 

[Tom Schmitz]

The rotor and stator have been installed. CDI fits in the Gen 2 bracket if the tabs are spread just a bit.

A simple adapter plate to mount the Gen 1 coil in the Gen 2 bracket.

The simplified and adapted harness is ready for trial fitting and testing for function, then final wrapping.

 

[Tom Schmitz]

Jeff,

When it comes to ignition stuff, Damocles explains it best.

For optimum operation, you must have a GENERATION 1 ignition coil to function with a respective ignition system consonant with that generation.

Why? Generation 1 ignition coils function more as TRANSFORMERS, while Generation 2 ignition coils are more like INDUCTORS. If you check the resistance specifications of the two components, you will see a considerable variation between them.

The Generation 1 ignition coil transforms a high-voltage DC pulse from the CDI module's capacitor to an even higher voltage, firing the spark plug. No current flows in the primary windings until the capacitor is discharged by the pickup coil output triggering the thyristor discharging the capacitor. Current flows in the Generation 1 ignition coil for only an instant, when the spark plug fires.

By contrast, the Generation 2 ignition coil primary windings receive power immediately when the ignition switch is turned on. The primary ignition coil windings around an iron core are saturated by this battery current 'til the pickup coil abruptly terminates this power; the consequent rapid decay of the electromagnetic field created by the battery current induces a voltage into the secondary windings; the resulting high voltage fires the spark plug....

 

[Tom Schmitz]

It all works just fine. It's pretty straightforward. The only thing that could trip one up is that there is a 100Ω resistor in the ignition switch between the B/W and the B/Y wire that the manual doesn't mention. I was perplexed at seeing a 100Ω path to ground when I was doing a double check of all the wiring just after installing the new harness. Had me going for an hour or so, as I my first thought was that I had a ground pin in the wrong spot on some on one of the running light connectors or one of the connectors to the relays crossed up.

The B/W needs to be disconnected from ground (open, infinite resistance) when the ignition switch is in the "On" position in order for the CDI to operate. Grounding the B/W is what kills the ignition when the switch is turned to "Off".

It would have seen 100Ω path to ground as a ground, so the resistor had to come out.

I added a switch to connect the Y/R wire to B+ when kicking. I don't know if it is strictly required on the Gen 1, but it can't hurt.

A genuine Shindengen MOSFET FH020AA was added in at the last minute. The LiFePo batteries are supposed to be happier being charged by the MOSFET regulator/rectifiers.

All that's left is to do the final wrap in the new harness, reinstall it, and button everything back up.

 

[Tom Schmitz]

It was a good project (HID headlights, Vapor dash, minimalist harness, kick start, and Gen 1 to Gen 2 ignition) to have while the remodeling was going on and I was pretty much stuck here.

The last item on the remodel, the stucco repair, starts tomorrow. That's a few days work and I may just finish the bike and the house on the same day.

After that, I'm outta here.

 

[Tom Schmitz]

We have to qualify my statement with "That's the way I'm reading it", which could be wrong.

In the "Off" position the Gen 2 ignition switch connects the B/W from the igniter to chassis ground, the B/Y ground bus wire. Of course, we don't know the functions of the various igniter pins because Denso and KHI hold these close to the vest, but I take that as "grounding the igniter".

I cannot find the right side switch block anywhere in the Shed of Horrors, which is why it is called the Shed of Horrors. I am leaning towards not having a kill switch.

Obviously, I must study this much more...

After spending many hours hatching several cunning plans to concoct a functioning kill switch, all of which crashed and burned, I threw in the towel and did it the easy way.

 

[Tom Schmitz]

Why DELETE the electrical starter? Kickstarter and electrical starter remain compatible on KLR650s.

Because Hai Karate is no longer made and the best available substitute is a kick-start-only two-smoke twin of large displacement. Since two-smokes have been all but outlawed, the KLR comes in at a knuckle-dragging second place being a carburetted thumper and all that neat shit.

Substitute a healthy kick for the squirt seen here in this here scene to see and properly visualize that which must naturally ensue (or is it 'ensee'?):

 

[Tom Schmitz]

We just had the bees finish off the pollination of the kumquats. It took them four days and it looks like we are going to have a bumper crop this year. I predict we could be into the 70s for the kumquat marmalade jar count. Good thing; we barely cracked 50 this year and I may run out of marmalade before next May.

We're also set to have a record crop on the tangerine tree if the squirrels don't eat them.

I have threatened to chop down the lime tree, as threatening to chop them down usually results in them blooming. If I do chop it down I may try an apple tree. But never a Dorian. Them things will knock a buzzard off a shit wagon.

 

[Tom Schmitz]

Scroll down about 3/4 of the way through the article to see the insides of a Gen 2 ignition switch.

Post Page

www.souperdoo.com