[Damocles]

Semi-relevant post (applicable to either LED or incandescent turn signal bulbs) follows:

I installed a SMART TURN SYSTEM on my KTM690; applicable to KLR650s or just about any motorcycle with a latching turn signal switch.

What it does: Rider signals a turn; device holds blinking interval; when turn is completed, blinking automatically cancelled.

How it works: Little black box spliced between handlebar turn signal switch and motorcycle wiring; latching of turn signal switch defeated with "felts" preventing full motion of sliding block (result: momentary electrical contact only). Gyroscope, accelerometer, attitude sensor in mini-computer "knows" when the bike prepares for, enters, and exits turns, signaling appropriately. Timer stops flashing action after time interval with no turns or change in attitude.

Here's a link: https://www.safer-turn.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIi-Lut7is3AIVmksNCh2RxQddEAAYASAAEgJbFPD_BwE

Works! (Turn signal switch somewhat harder to turn on, after felts are installed limiting latching block motion.)

 

[shaky6]

That got intricate with gyroscopes. Maybe just a proximity switch set up near the triple stops. Adjustable based on normal turning angles.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Tom Schmitz]

My R1200RT just uses time and motion. If you are stopped, the indicator will stay on forever. Once moving, it starts a timer. If you stop, it stops the timer.
Rinse, lather, repeat until the timer runs out.

If the Germans built anything with gyroscopes, felt, and an attitude sensor it would be called a 'Biergarten'.

 

[Damocles]

That got intricate with gyroscopes. Maybe just a proximity switch set up near the triple stops. Adjustable based on normal turning angles.

If you dare clicking on the SMART TURN SYSTEMS (STS) link in Post # 21 above, shaky6, scroll down and click on, "Learn More," and read the details, you'll see the Silesian manufacturer specifically mentions GYROSCOPES, accelerometers, and attitude sensors. I believe the manufacturer's representation, because:

The BLACK BOX may be mounted ANYWHERE (never mind triple stop proximity) on the bike, as long as the linear axis is facing forward and box is oriented ("This Side Up") level with the bike vertical.

Manufacturer's statement:

HOW DOES IT WORK

Extreme accuracy and maneuvers detection will leave you speechless.

Smart Turn System is gathering 300 data elements per second on motorcycles’ inclination, heading, acceleration, and vibrations.

State of the art technology and advanced algorithm are capable of detecting every
maneuver and cancel the turn signals according to road rules.

Notice the image shown, indicating GYROSCOPE, accelerometer, and motion detection locations in the BLACK BOX.

What evidence in your analysis (before your TAPATALK post) supports your doubt about the existence of GYROSCOPES?

Just a comment: GYROSCOPES may take many forms, other than a spinning disk on an axle. Even a VIBRATING REED may constitute a principal GYROSCOPE component, when properly instrumented (a capability perhaps favoring miniaturization). One example from Wikipedia: "A microelectromechanical systems (MEMS) gyroscope are miniaturized gyroscope found in electronic devices. It takes the idea of the Foucault pendulum and uses a vibrating element." (I won't suggest a Sagnac Effect ring laser gyro! )

DISCLAIMER: I do not know which type of GYROSCOPE STS uses in its automatic turn-cancelling unit.

Then again, maybe you have something (a promising innovative ides), shaky6! How about HALL EFFECT sensors, proximate to the triple stops? Hmmmmmmmm.

 

[shaky6]

So, I'm not an electrical engineer, but when use LEDs in an Arduino prototype, I have to put a resistor inline with the LED. This is because the LED isn't a "load" and would result in a short to ground and a burned up LED. I think I'm either using a 1k or 10k resistor. I'd have to look. Anyways, why would that principle not apply to an LED turn signal?

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[Damocles]

With limited visibility into the circuit you describe, shaky6, I can offer only the following:

You're talking about putting a resistor in SERIES with a solid state device to prevent it from burning out. The SERIES connection of a resistor lowers the VOLTAGE seen by the device you're protecting.

The LED turn signal resistor is connected in PARALLEL with the diodes (LEDS). In this connection, the voltage remains the same in the two "legs" of the circuit, but the main circuit current increases with the additional path of the load resistor added.

Further analysis would require more circuitry details, perhaps consultation with Mr. Kirchoff and Mr. Ohm.

 

[Tom Schmitz]

The LEDs that you put into electronic circuits are typically 1.5V to 3.5V LEDs. the voltage varies somewhat with the color fo the LED. The resistor in series with the LED has a voltage drop across it and the resistance is selected to make the voltage drop equal to an amount that sets the voltage drop across the LED to its proper operating voltage.

Thus, if you have a 2v LED and a 12v source, the drop across the resistor needs to be 10v. If it is much less than 10v the LED will go POOF! and emit an evil-smelling bit of Magic Smoke. Magic Smoke is, of course, what silicon-based electronic devices run on. Once let out the device no longer works. I digress...

LED lamps are designed by the manufacturer to run on 12V. This can be done by using 12V LEDs, wiring lower voltage LEDs in series, etc. The resistor that is required in this case has nothing to do with limiting current to the LED array and everything to do with presenting a load to the conventional flasher.

Conventional flashers are thermal devices. The typical turn signal lamp is a 25W lamp. In the typical circuit, the flasher sees that 25W lamp as a 2A load (from P=IE). That 2A current runs through an electromechanical device inside the flasher. That device heats up and disconnects the circuit. Then it cool and reconnects. Over and over, and this is what causes it to flash the lamp.

LEDs present virtually no load because they consume very little current. With no current present in the circuit the flasher cannot heat up and disconnect itself, so the lamps stay on.

LED ready flashers use an electronic circuit similar to a 555 timer. The voltage present at the trigger (from the turn signal switch) starts the timer which continues to run until the trigger voltage is removed.

 

[Toney]

So, I'm not an electrical engineer, but when use LEDs in an Arduino prototype, I have to put a resistor inline with the LED. This is because the LED isn't a "load" and would result in a short to ground and a burned up LED. I think I'm either using a 1k or 10k resistor. I'd have to look. Anyways, why would that principle not apply to an LED turn signal?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

If I wanted LED turns to (INSERT REASON HERE), I'd just swap the bulbs to LED bulbs that plug into the exsisting sockets. The resistor is built into the bulb. You're thinking about a plain ol' LED. What you'd buy for the KLR is an LED that replaces the 12 volt factory bulb. That way, all you'd have to do is swap out the flasher to an electronic one (due to less current being drawn by the new LEB bulbs). Now if you want "auto cancel", that's a whole different subject that could be done a number of ways.

 

[Toney]

I think that discussion of a "auto canceling" turn signal system would be better in a new thread. We got off the OP's topic.

 

[Damocles]

I think that discussion of a "auto canceling" turn signal system would be better in a new thread. We got off the OP's topic.

Maybe so; I mentioned in my first post on the subject, discussion was only semi-relevant. I assumed anyone offended by the diversion might avert their eyes.

Back to your regularly-scheduled program:

If I wanted LED turns to (INSERT REASON HERE), I'd just swap the bulbs to LED bulbs that plug into the exsisting sockets. The resistor is built into the bulb. You're thinking about a plain ol' LED. What you'd buy for the KLR is an LED that replaces the 12 volt factory bulb. That way, all you'd have to do is swap out the flasher to an electronic one (due to less current being drawn by the new LEB bulbs).

As to your approach to installing LED turn signals (in the unlikely event you ever will), did you neglect/ignore the diodes for the dashboard turn signal indicator lamp? I mean, to prevent feedback through the indicator bulb, illuminating all four turn signals simultaneously?

I thought grounding one side of the incandescent dashboard indicator lamp, and connecting a couple of diodes to its input, were required.

CAVEAT: Brief auto-cancel remark follows (hey, we already raised the topic!):

Tom Schmitz said:

My R1200RT just uses time and motion. If you are stopped, the indicator will stay on forever. Once moving, it starts a timer. If you stop, it stops the timer.
Rinse, lather, repeat until the timer runs out.

I think my KTM1290's turn signal scheme works the same way; I've been surprised to see the turn signal cancelled from time to time without my knowing action. Wondering if I should get the HILL HOLDER software mod . . . OOPS! Sorry!

 

[Toney]

...... I assumed anyone offended by the diversion might avert their eyes.

Don't get me wrong. I'm ok with getting "off topic".