[pdwestman]

More photos and video

Oil consumption and fitting notes.

Fine magnetic debris on filter magnet in lieu of magnetic drain plug after 5,000 miles.

Modified crankshaft oil orifice.

Contouring of oil filter cavity for smoother oil flow into filter media.

 

[pdwestman]

video

Video demonstration of oil pressure measured at camshaft (cold oil).

Special Thanks to Nat S. a local KTM/Kawasaki rider. (But I wish he hadn't 'titled' it, in-correctly)

 

[Tom Schmitz]

Thanks, Paul, the pictures and video add a great deal to the discussion and are helpful.

Tom

 

[pdwestman]

Tom,
Thank you for properly embedding the video.

I must make Note of a slight error by my videographer, he could not change the Notations on the video in my shop.

I LOWERED Main Oil Pressure by INCREASING Camshaft Oil VOLUME and therefore Pressure.

Just Want Everybody that comes 'into the MIDDLE' of this thread to understand.

 

[Tom Schmitz]

Paul -

I'm trying to get this all straight in my head; here's what I've come up with the summarize the data.

Is this pretty much correct?

I'm especially concerned that I've got the mods that you did captured. Did I miss anything?

I'm not quite clear on when you drilled out the passage in the oil cap and modified the feed port inside the filter cavity.

Tom

 

[pdwestman]

1987 KLR650-A1 63,944miles stock oil system since new 10/86-12/2012.
EM doohickey, Thermo-Bobed
Plasti-gauged RH EX CAM bearing at >.0015"--<.002", factory perfect!
Specs. 10W40 (petroleum?) 11-21psi @ 194f.
BASE RUN
Oil temp----Main galley psi----Center of Cam Banjo bolt psi------RPM
68-------------------------67------------------------------------8-------1650
130-----------------------22------------------------------------1.5-----1350
167-----------------------38------------------------------------1.5-----4000
167-----------------------11------------------------------------<1------2000
170-----------------------25------------------------------------<1------3000
174-----------------------32------------------------------------>1------4000
179-----------------------42------------------------------------1.5------5000
183-----------------------50------------------------------------1.75-----6000

195-----------------------29------------------------------------<1-------4000
WHAT the heck, thats KLR600 spec. 29@ 4000RPM?
I DID NOT TAKE A HOT IDLE READING, Wished I had.

Modification #1, Install 92150-1641 KLX650 banjo bolt by starter motor.
Found the machining chip restricting 1/16" hole to about HALF.
Explains my very low CAM banjo oil pressures compared to '03 and '09 units tested.

Second Run
73f.----------------------50-------------------------------------18-------1650
150----------------------6--------------------------------------2---------1420
168----------------------25-------------------------------------4.5-------4000
178----------------------5.5------------------------------------1.5-------2000
181----------------------10-------------------------------------2.5-------3000
183----------------------15-------------------------------------3---------4000
190----------------------28-------------------------------------4.2-------5000
197----------------------32-------------------------------------5---------6000

198----------------------13-------------------------------------2.5-------4000

195----------------------3---------------------------------------<1-------1300

That looked more like what I wanted, but LOOK at the 5000 and 6000RPM psi still.

Modification #2, Drill and solder a KLX650 banjo bolt for the Cam Banjo.

Connect DIGITAL Tach, Found more ERROR than my speedo, but easyier to hold more consistant rpm.

68-----------------------55-------------------------------------22---------1700
125----------------------14-------------------------------------5.5--------1350
170----------------------25-------------------------------------7----------4000
169----------------------6--------------------------------------2.5--------2000
173----------------------10-------------------------------------3.5--------3000
178----------------------17-------------------------------------5.75-------4000
186----------------------28-------------------------------------8-----------5000
194----------------------30-------------------------------------9-----------6000

198----------------------14-------------------------------------5-----------4000

195----------------------3.5------------------------------------1.5---------1400

There is that 28-30 psi AGAIN at 5000-6000 RPM. But like T748, 3.5 in the MAIN at idle. Double dang it! And a worn-out engine sprocket seal and oring leak. Fixed the seal leak and rode the snot out of it for 150 miles, Full throttle every where I could in 28-35f. temperatures.
Hey, I can generate 200f. OIL TEMPS at 7200 RPM, 4th gear up-hill in a head wind. Neat.

Modification #3, Install a 92151-1349 Banjo bolt from a KLF300 Bayou ATV, in the Transmission Banjo.

67f.----------------------52-------------------------------------18---------1950
131----------------------6---------------------------------------2.2--------1050
164----------------------16-------------------------------------4.5---------4000
169----------------------5.5-------------------------------------1.75-------2000
171----------------------8---------------------------------------2.75-------3000
177----------------------13-------------------------------------3.75--------4000
186----------------------22-------------------------------------5.25--------5000
189----------------------28-------------------------------------7------------6000

195----------------------12-------------------------------------4------------4000

197----------------------3---------------------------------------1.25--------1320

There is that danged 5000-6000rpm main psi, still.

Bike had been needing water pump seal for near 2 years. And I've had a kickstart kit for +20yrs.
I'm NOT DONE YET, Later guys.
pdwestman

Not quite Tom. This quote of post#41 from page 5, seems to be my best answer.
The Pressure Relief Valve Modification is next up post#42 and Relief Valve testing on post#44.
The Bayou 300 Crankshaft 3mm control orifice #92062-1056, which MADE NO CHANGE in camshaft pressure, came into use on page 6, post#60.

You may want to edit your above post accordingly. (your session #1)
I absolutely love your graphs, Thanks.

 

[Tom Schmitz]

Paul -

I take it I got a bit of the cart before the horse then. I'll go back through and see where I got that mixed up and correct the table.

Irrespective of my error, it's graphically apparent what your changes have done to the cam pressure.

I'm still digesting the data to see what I might want to do. I did lap a relief valve seat, but have not installed it, and have a set of banjo bolts sitting on the bench waiting for me to do something.

Tom

 

[Spec]

I guess I still don't get the point of all this.

KLR motors are one of the most reliable motorcycle motors ever made, yes? Just seems like an esoteric exercise all this oil pressure stuff.

Could this be one of those old retired guy threads? :tent6:

 

[pdwestman]

Spec,
That is just it, MOST owners, including I until 3 years ago, DID NOT understand, that Kawasaki Already DID THIS.
To the 1993-1996 KLX650, dirt and dual-purpose models.

Why did they NOT incorporate their NEW found knowledge, into the KLR650?

The current generation 12,000 RPM, KX450F motocrosser is CLEAR down to the original (modern) 1973 900cc Z-1 Kawasaki 4 stroke oil pressure, minimum, 2.8 PSI Main system pressure. With Needle Bearing ROD bearing.

 

[pdwestman]

Tom,
As you can see by my 'notes' on the old oil filter, tomorrow will mark basically the 1 year anniversary, since the start of this project.

We will all be patiently waiting for some more 1988 and Newer, pressure readings.
Thank you

 

[Tom Schmitz]

Could this be one of those old retired guy threads? :tent6:

Nope. When you're retired you do this:

Thanks for the thought, though.

T

 

[pdwestman]

Tom,
I think I understand your confusion.
In "Camshaft Oil Pressure, 2hr ride data", I DID list the Modifications in the order, which I would SUGGEST that they be done.

Remember the comments, "in the middle, Again". A year ago, I did NOT Know where to Start.

I hope it is now, clear as mud.

 

[pdwestman]

Ya' know, Looking at all of my of own evidence, (postings) and Notes on the skid plate. And Understanding that the OIL FILTER, WILL fully, drain back, into the Sump.
IF the crankshaft, bottom rod pin Stopped, near bottom dead center, while on a work stand.
And IF, I added that last 24 ounces, as indicated on the skid plate picture, with the oil filter, STILL FULL, I OVER-FILLED, by about 8 oz. (consumption lessened?)

If on the other hand, if the oil filter WAS EMPTY, and I added 24 oz. of oil, then I might say, oil consumption INCREASED.
(excess throw off from the transmission?)???????????????????????

Every RIDE, is different!

THIS IS JUST one of the things, that is maddening about this engine!

AT any level, I like seeing about 5 PSI, at the camshaft banjo bolt, at 5000 RPM! At least I/we can measure IT there! (with modifications)!

I NEED to Ride another 5000 miles, and compare notes!

 

[Tom Schmitz]

T

 

[Normk]

I wish you'd stop doing these things, PD!

Now I have to try measuring the sump oil level with crank throw up and down. (VBG)

Makes sense and don't doubt your measurement of volume difference, much more than I expected.

I've heard various claims regarding oil consumption comparing full level and near add mark but the reports did not seem conclusive. The bikes with which I have had direct experience have not seemed to be affected.

In the spring I will keep track of oil consumption in case the information is useful to your investigation.

 

[pdwestman]

Next time you do an oil change, and your NOT going to ride for a day or so.

On a work stand or center stand. Pour in, ONLY 2 QT's or 2 Liters. Magic marker the window.
Start the engine, fill the filter. Walk away for 2-8 hrs.
If the window does NOT Refill to level line, pull the LH access plugs. Find top dead center (lazy T), turn engine, 1/2 turn to bottom dead center.
Let set another 2-8 hrs.

Don't forget, to Pour in another 1/2 bottle of oil.

 

[Damocles]

As a static test, could one not (engine COLD, oil drained into sump) rotate crank to TDC, allow oil to settle and mark meniscus on sight glass; then . . . rotate crank to BDC, observing change in sight glass level . . .

If Archimedes wasn't just funnin' us, the oil level should change as a function of crank position . . . change should be observable in less than 2-8 hours, I should think.

 

[pdwestman]

Damocles,
You do not understand. The crankshaft and rod pin do NOT, dip into the oil.
No change in oil level from the basic Position of the crankshaft.

It is the Fact, that the Position of the Oil Outlet Hole in the rod pin is Above or Below, the oil filter. The engine oil will drain between the engine case (filter cavity) and the filter cap. Down thru the delivery port, into the crank main shaft and OUT thru, the rod pin oil outlet hole.
It will Only drain Partially, when setting on the side stand, yes.

 

[pdwestman]

Taken from page 4, post #36.

 

[pdwestman]

Taken from page 4, post #36.

Uuuuuummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

Guy's,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Normk,,,,,,,,,,,,,?

Do you think there is anyway to calculate the Venturi effect of the oil passing from a 2.26mm orifice in the oil filter cap, past the edge of the filter cavity, with say .002" clearance, into an 8mm funnel?????????????????????? That's not correct, it is only a 5 or 6mm funnel.

Who has their filter cap currently OFF the bike? Care to measure it, today?

Food for thought.