[Biggs3118]

I just ordered the 55 gallon drum of concentrated additive for $21,000. HA HA! That stuff is like $15 a quart! Amsoil is $20 so I guess it a deal! HAHA. I do put a few ounces of zzdp additive in my klr, but I also often run the cheapest oil Mobil Delvac 1300 15w-40 that I got for $7 a gallon. Right now I have plain old Pennzoil 20w-50 in there ( I am an oil hoarder). Also the KLR is not a high performance machine pretty much any oil that doesn't have the dreaded friction modifiers is going to be fine 10w-30 for cold weather up to 20w-50 for hot weather. A friend of mine has a Aprillia Tuareg and it specs 15w-50. Mobil One sells a 15w-50 for $23. for 5 quarts. and thats what I would run in that bike, no way this Oil Extreme or Amsoil or anything else is 5 times better, it just costs 5 times as much. That Aprillia is a lot higher performance motor, getting double the horsepower of the KLR for the same displacement, so yea I would run a synthetic for sure just not a $15-20 a quart synthetic.

Ok, you do you. It's not for everyone, just those that do want the best.

To put Amsoil in the same paragraph is insulting. It's not even close...please tell me you're not basing your assumptions on price alone, as if price equals quality?!? The fact that other oils are more expensive than oil extreme should be your first red flag as to the marketing BS..

Also, for your own benefit please look up what happens when too much zddp is blended with any oil. You'll actually increase wear...

my thread title still stands.

Best wishes

 

[Biggs3118]

I just want to go "on the record" and say that I still don't fully understand the propensity of societies to "shoot the messenger".

History sure repeats itself...over and over.

Best wishes as always

 

[Biggs3118]

It's also worth noting that oil extreme has been in business since 1987 yet neither "you" nor "your friends" have ever heard about it. You haven't ever seen it advertised anywhere. It's not in retail stores. Did anyone stop to consider what that means?

However it's a globally recognized company....They do NOT need to market anything to you. Those who know, use it. Those who don't, don't.. it's that simple.

Best wishes

 

[Gunnar88]

For context: I prefer the factory Kawasaki oil otherwise. Your engine thanks you.

I want to start a campaign to end the use of 'diesel' oil in the KLR, I can't imagine where that trend started.?.

It started because people are cheap! Im cheap! KLR guys are CHEAP! diesel oils often have robust additives and no friction modifiers and its the right viscosity.......then they went and paid for the testing or whatever and now T-4 is MAP2 and so is T-6 which kinda proved the "use diesel oil in your motorcycle guys right". I have never, and probably never will buy a retail quart of Amsoil, there are just a lot of guy who go on and on about Amsoil all the time now maybe they will all switch over to Oil Extreme is it better than T4, I dont know, but if I did want to know I would stick my nose in the forum at "Bob is the Oil Guy" because that is where I decided to run diesel oil in my bikes about 12 years ago. I looked at the material data sheets, I perused used oil lab analysis's many of which came with expert Tribologist opinions and all that stuff matched up pretty good with my experience then and now. I use Redline break in oil as a ZZDP additive 2 oz per oil change for the same reasons. I dont run it in my rollerized Moto Guzzi Stelvio because of the research I have done into peoples expert opinions points to it not needing it. Take your Oil Extreme ideas over to the oil forum and see what they make of it? do you have any lab analysis reports to show us? any Tribologists expert opinions? I can remember the last time I saw or heard of a motor failure on a KLR that wasn't from lack of oil or lack of change oil.

 

[Biggs3118]

It is clear at this point I have made a mistake, I promise that won't happen again.

Best wishes

 

[Biggs3118]

Someone should contact all the sanctioning bodies and inform them that diesel oil is what they should be putting in their engines. Especially for engines spinning 5k+ rpm. You could revolutionize the industry. Who knew all the professionals are doing it wrong? Nothing to be learned here, folks. Move right along.

I regards to being cheap, I like the old adage: spend a little more now or spend a lot later.

Cost of oil vs cost of engine. All of y'all's oil burning problems and burnt up engines in the KLR world must just be "normal".

Funny though because my old '02 never used one drop between changes, regardless of how hard I rode it....

Good day now.
Admin, please feel free to delete this thread to make room for more knowledgeable discussions. I wouldn't want to "muddy the waters" here.

Best wishes

 

[PeteK]

Arrghhh! Another oil thread. I'll jump in late. I can't help myself.

If anyone has independent lab tests they can link to, we all would appreciate it. I looked through the web site and did not find any SAE papers (although they display the SAE International logo at the bottom of their page), or similar papers showing test results.

So I went looking for other test results. I found many test results at the "540Rat" blog on oil testing. He is an ME and racer, and started conducting and documenting his own testing about 10 years ago. Although his writing tends to be bombastic, From what I can gather on his site and others, his testing data is accurate.

It's a mixed bag of results. The wear resistance of some oils with the Oil Extreme added goes up significantly--up to 56%-- whereas other oils have little change or go down with the OE additive. The trend appears to be that relatively low scoring petroleum oils generally increase in wear resistance significantly, whereas high-scoring synthetics with have little change or go down slightly.

NOTE: The dozen of his top rated oils are all above 130,000psi. None of the results of oils that improved with the addition of OE got anywhere near that, with the top result being 111,570psi at #55.

Your quick take-away: "It depends" on the oil you add this stuff to. If you already use one of the oils highly rated for wear resistance by 540Rat, then the additive does little or decreases the wear resistance rating. If you use one of the lower rated conventional or semi-synthetic oils, then it might help significantly. Or hurt. Or not make any difference.

Here is an excerpt from the 540Rat blog, although there are many other test comparisons further down in the blog (too much to quote here):
.
55. “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra, API SM synthetic = 111,570 psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to it, has a wear protection capability of 115,612 psi. But, with 2.0 OZ of concentrate added per qt, which is the amount intended for racing, its wear protection capability “WENT DOWN 3.5%”.
zinc = TBD
phosphorus = TBD.
moly = TBD
calcium = TBD
TBN = TBD
.
.
56. “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to 10W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 semi-synthetic = 111,061psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to it, has a wear protection capability of only 71,206 psi. But, with 2.0 OZ of concentrate added per qt, which is the amount intended for racing, its wear protection capability “WENT UP A BREATH TAKING 56%”.
zinc = TBD
phosphorus = TBD.
moly = TBD
calcium = TBD
TBN = TBD
.
.
57. 5W30 LE (Lubrication Engineers) Monolec Tetra-Syn, API SN, GF-5, dexos 1, synthetic = 110,883 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
This oil was tested Spring 2018.
.
.
58. 5W30 Oil Extreme Motor Oil, API SM synthetic (per the Oil Company, even though synthetic wording is not shown on the label) = 110,286 psi
The Company claims this oil contains their proprietary formula of calcium petroleum sulfontate EP (Extreme Pressure) technology that is NOT found in any other motor oil. They also claim that it will provide 5 to 7 more HP, 7 to 10% better fuel mileage, cut engine wear in half, and will extend drain intervals two or three times safely. This oil is endorsed and promoted by Tech Author David Vizard. And he was so impressed by this oil’s performance that he also became a share holder in the Company. The results from the “Dynamic Wear Testing Under Load” performed here, fully supports their claim regarding wear protection. So, their hype about that, turned out to be absolutely true. And since this oil beat nearly every high zinc oil I’ve ever tested, it also proved another one of their claims, that using zinc as the primary anti-wear component, is outdated technology.
zinc = 765 ppm
phosphorus = 624 ppm
moly = 52 ppm
calcium = 7,652 ppm
TBN = 23.2
.

Just for fun, here is the test result of Yamalube 15-30, which was the last on the list. Clearly, its claimed JASO MA rating was false:

298. 15W30 Yamalube, Performance Full-Synthetic with Ester, Motorcycle oil, JASO MA (Gold Bottle) = 0 psi, yes 0 psi, that is NOT a typo. This oil was tested several times, exactly the same as every other motor oil is tested on this Blog. And this oil COMPLETELY FAILED and SEIZED EVERY TIME it was tested, which resulted in a 0 psi value. No other oil has ever performed so badly when subjected to the Engineering torture testing that every oil is subjected to here. For better or worse, I can only post the test results the way they came out.
This oil was tested Spring 2019.


Here is the link to the 540Rat blog. Unfortunately, it's just one long flat file, so you have to wade and jump through it all (yes, I have):

MOTOR OIL ENGINEERING TEST DATA

….On smart phones, “Q&A” CAN NOW BE ACCESSED BY CLICKING ON THE 3 HORIZONTAL BARS IN THE UPPER LEFT HAND CORNER…..******..With so many different Blog readers coming here…

540ratblog.wordpress.com

 

[Biggs3118]

@PeteK that's the most informed and intelligent reply thus far. Honestly, it's what I had hoped for from the beginning. Nice work.

 

[Biggs3118]

As to the bigger issue at hand, at this point my head hurts so I'm just going to let Mr Twain sum it up for me and my mistake of starting this thread.

Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain

 

[pdwestman]

For context: I prefer the factory Kawasaki oil otherwise. Your engine thanks you.

I want to start a campaign to end the use of 'diesel' oil in the KLR, I can't imagine where that trend started.?.

Don't Leave YET!
I have used almost nothing but the Kawasaki engine oils in my KLR650 since 1987. They used to only sell the 20W50 grade in the USA until about 1997. I did try Golden Spectro 20W50 in the spring of 1988 and I could not feel any improvement in 'shifting' thru the gears.

Fast forward to the fall of 2012 when I began my oil pressure/oil flow alterations experiments. I had to change over to the Kawasaki 10W40 grade for more accurate readings comparing the specs in the service manual.

So @Biggs3118 are you using the "Oil Extreme" Additive in the Kawasaki 10W40 oil or their 10W40 pre-packaged oil in your KLR650?
Either way, would you be willing to send a sample to BSL with either 3000 miles or 5000 miles of use on it to compare to my 6 samples contained in this thread, https://www.klrforum.com/threads/laboratory-oil-analysis-thread.38962/ ??????

Only one engine oil has substantially surpassed my chosen Kawasaki 10W40 engine oils performance which can be found fairly deep in the thread.
Maybe "Oil Extreme" can surpass us both?

 

[Biggs3118]

Don't Leave YET!
I have used almost nothing but the Kawasaki engine oils in my KLR650 since 1987. They used to only sell the 20W50 grade in the USA until about 1997. I did try Golden Spectro 20W50 in the spring of 1988 and I could not feel any improvement in 'shifting' thru the gears.

Fast forward to the fall of 2012 when I began my oil pressure/oil flow alterations experiments. I had to change over to the Kawasaki 10W40 grade for more accurate readings comparing the specs in the service manual.

So @Biggs3118 are you using the "Oil Extreme" Additive in the Kawasaki 10W40 oil or their 10W40 pre-packaged oil in your KLR650?
Either way, would you be willing to send a sample to BSL with either 3000 miles or 5000 miles of use on it to compare to my 6 samples contained in this thread, https://www.klrforum.com/threads/laboratory-oil-analysis-thread.38962/ ??????

Only one engine oil has substantially surpassed my chosen Kawasaki 10W40 engine oils performance which can be found fairly deep in the thread.
Maybe "Oil Extreme" can surpass us both?

For context: I prefer the factory Kawasaki oil otherwise. Your engine thanks you

As you can see, I concur. The KPO oil is the best alternative to the Oil extreme. That's all that I ever ran in the ol' girl and she ran like a sewing machine, never used any oil. 10-40winter & 20-50summer

Best wishes

 

[PeteK]

A few more points:

Comapring oil sample results from one engine to another, using different oils is the proverbial “apples and oranges.” Instead, compare the trends over multiple samples in the same engine using different oils.

The point of highest pressure and wear in most engines is the cam-follower interface. Especially the older engine designs where the cam wipes across a tappet or follower. Our KLRs fit that description. Of the many KLR engine cams I’ve seen, i can’t recall seeing one where the cam was worn down significantly, even in those that suffered oil starvation to the cam bearings. Maybe Paul has. But that tells me that the cam interface on KLRs is greatly over designed for the KLR 4-valve setup. Thus i think the choice of oil doesn’t make a lot of difference in these engines, unlike some other engines.

 

[Biggs3118]

Only one engine oil has substantially surpassed my chosen Kawasaki 10W40 engine oil performance which can be found fairly deep in the thread.
Maybe "Oil Extreme" can surpass us both?

It's been quite awhile since I first read your oil thread and unfortunately I don't recall the oil
that outperforms the KPO "in that test" but if you say it's a diesel oil my head is probably going to explode .

let's remember folks that diesel fuel for most of its existence was fortified with sulfur...why was that(rhetorical question)? Obviously. Just humor me. Something to do with needing additional lubricity......

 

[Gunnar88]

When my buddy had a shop about 30 years ago the BG guy would come in, they sold a 4oz oil additive, and they had a test thing with a bearing turning and a bar that would push apiece of metal against it and he would do it with no oil then whatever was in the shop, they used Castro 20/50, then with the BG, and the BG always outperformed everything. It was very entertaining kind of like at the fair with the food choppers or whatever it is they sell. The shop sold BG and we all used it too.

 

[Gunnar88]

I checked the oil forum and they did some testing and research on this stuff in 2002. I guess It has been a well kept secret!

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3959

 

[daave]

It's all good Mr. Mule but Seriously? Amsoil? That stuff belongs in the toilet bowl.

How many "professional" Pro-mod(4500+hp) owners use Amsoil? Zero.

Hey now, I recognize that it's not for everyone....

I saw a funny clip one time where a fan gave someone the "Amsoil boosted" product. The owner subsequently used it in his lawn mower. "This is where it belongs" he said in a comedic voice.

As it was once said, you can take a horse to water but......

Best wishes

A LOT of pro-mod guys use Amsoil stuff. Lots of NASCAR as well. Not every sticker on the car is what's used on the car. I would bet that most don't use the oil the sticker says. The fact is for most pro's what they use is kept a secret. Some use blended and some use all synthetic. For my KLR I used Kawi for a while (awful), then Bell-Ray (little better) and now Amsoil which blows them out of the water in terms of shifting. The fork oil I used is pretty nice as well. Last time I took the bike apart I also flushed the water and put Amsoil in. So far it's impressive.

 

[ymracing]

And...

 

[PeteK]

“Rotella T6 of course. What are you running?”

 

[GoldFrog]

I promise, I'm only here to help. Regardless of what people 'think' about me.

With a thread titled such as this one, I'd better be damned sure it's accurate. My reputation is on the line...

Best wishes and remember ride hard ride often for life is short.

Wait, you're actually serious? I thought you were making fun of them! 🤣

 

[pdwestman]

Some use blended and some use all synthetic. For my KLR I used Kawi for a while (awful), then Bell-Ray (little better) and now Amsoil which blows them out of the water in terms of shifting.

Show me a BSL analysis in the thread that I linked. THAT would be the FIRST AMSOIL Report that I've seen!